Misinformation correction: M&S Staff

[BeeSourianteAgain]

M&S have responded to people's enquiries, here's one:

https://bsky.app/profile/dpdormouse.bsky.social/post/3lvuzitrplc2f

As expected the staff member was just doing their job, something that happens thousands of times a day in shops all over the country.

As per normal, the trans panic was manufactured.

I fully expect all the GCs and media pundits who were pushing all sorts of hate to apologise, but as a person on their second LGBTQ moral panic I know very well how it goes.

Not you again!!

The message the mother got from M&S is clear. It’s on X.

Trans activists have clearly contacted M&S since, and M&S have sent another response. They are clearly trying to keep everyone happy.

I’m not clicking on some random Bluesky link to see what it is.

The mother in this has been very clear: the trans woman should have been working in homeware and men’s clothing. Instead he approached her 14yo dd in the underwear section and asked if she needed help, then vanished without a word when he saw the mother.

This.

Yep!

When trans identity shields males from accountability for predatory behaviour, this leads to increased suspicion of transwomen. This is no different to the increased suspicion towards priests.

Cases where a trans identifying male is defended despite questionable actions, while a non-trans male would face scrutiny, significantly undermine trust. If trans status didn’t make acknowledging biological sex taboo, mistrust would significantly decrease.

TRAs are to blame!

This.

My adult dd is raging about this but will simply not accept the X version and is repeating back to me the version that the mum is being transphobic and M&S didn't acknowledge the employee wasn’t where he was supposed to be. How on earth do we discuss this when she’s thinks I’m being fed one (wrong) version and only her version is right (via TikTok/Insta etc.) No ‘proof’ I use is being accepted as valid. It’s so frustrating.

I would ask her if she thinks any male person should be approaching a lone 14 year old girl in a bra section offering help.

If she doesn’t understand the issue without all the emotional shielding of language around gender identity, then maybe she needs safeguarding tips.

Well of course, if you believe a woman is a person that is male or female, then literally everyone looks like a woman.

Have a think about what you're saying.

Unless you mean that women are female people?

No.

It's heading down a slippery slope of trans people being expected to conform to the exact same rules as everyone else. Equal rights for trans people. Equal responsibilities for trans people.

Use spaces appropriate to your sex. Conform to child (and other vulnerable people) safeguarding guidelines. Don't use other people to amuse yourself with without their consent. Don't be a 'look at meeeee!' bore or a crybully. Do be a full, responsible member of society.

Get on with it. No one cares what you wear.

Unless it's fetish gear, in which case you need a refresher course on 'consent'.

If you set aside the issue of whether the staffer was away from their allocated post, does your DD accept the other facts? That the person was “not female” and that they were in the “bra section”? And that M&S policy is not to ask customers if they want help? How deep is the denial?

Yep @BobLobla
I would agree with Helleofabore.
And add that if she has children (or planning on them) you need to look at this as the start of a long term project in safeguarding training.

What an astonishing thread, and I don't say that lightly.

If I were a trans activist/ally, I'd be doing everything I could to bury this story. I'd be starting threads about kittens and puppies.

They don’t get why it’s an issue @Floisme- it simply doesn’t compute.

Well, quite. But …. They are still trying to establish a precedent where it should be considered acceptable behaviour for any male person to approach female children in an underwear department.

They obviously believe they will eventually succeed with their high value final outcome.

Yes I agree. I mentioned that it reminded me of the male breastfeeding “mum” guy featured on an ITV programme with his breast pump casually in shot, the frothing from TRAs about women’s reactions reminds me of that, they’re trying to establish a new norm where this kind of worrying behaviour can’t be challenged.

I think that sometimes we forget what the end goal of destabilising societal mores, particularly around the sex classes of humans, is.

And it seems that there really are some people who will all too happily enable the dismantling of safeguarding in their need to be seen as being ‘tolerant’ in the extreme. That Overton Window is being pushed very wide and some people are standing there cheering.

Yes that makes a lot more sense than scratching my head and thinking, ‘What have they been smoking?’

Yes I fully agree @Helleofabore

And it seems that there really are some people who will all too happily enable the dismantling of safeguarding in their need to be seen as being ‘tolerant’ in the extreme.

Yes, and to misquote Groucho Marks, if those reasons don't appear plausible, we have others..

I also don’t think that some of the people who have been repeating the phrases ‘just doing their job’ and ‘I’m fine with male sales staff discussing bras with me’ genuinely understand what they are supporting when they repeat these phrases.

Many male people harm children while ‘just doing their job’. That was never a defence for inappropriate male behaviour.

And so fucking what that you, personally, are fine with discussing bras with male sales staff. You do you! But what male person understands bra fitting like a female person who has to wear that piece of clothing? And no… male people with breasts have completely different bodies for bra fitting, so no, that dismissal attempt can fuck right off as well before it gets uttered.

What this incident has shone the light on is that M&S not only has poor safeguarding training, and it doesn’t seem to have respect for female shoppers, they also couldn’t care less about provide the high level of service that they seem to aspire to for female people buying bras.

It has highlighted several failures. And rather than hiding behind the ‘inclusive’ sentence they are now putting out to all and sundry, behind the scenes they need to be having some serious discussions about training and safeguarding and how to keep their female customers.

What part of “M&S retail staff do NOT approach customers and ask if they need help” do you not understand?

frankly it’s a bonkers business decision to allocate a trans woman to work in the lingerie dept of a shop. (I realise this was not the case here). Just casually boycott such staff.

I never thought they were offering a bra fitting - there was no reason to think that (although acknowledge some people did extrapolate, incorrectly, to that).

But I still don't think the approach to a young teenage girl in the bra section was appropriate.

Not read whole thread, but someone on another thread who'd worked for M&S described their policy as "peaceful browsing", which reflects the experience of most of us of shopping there.

I am assuming you aren't 14? Can you not see how a teenager may find it upsetting especially if unaccompanied?