Page 19 | Misinformation correction: M&S Staff

BeeSourianteAgain · 2025-08-08T13:03:46+00:00

M&S have responded to people's enquiries, here's one: [[https://bsky.app/profile/dpdormouse.bsky.social/post/3lvuzitrplc2f https://bsky.app/profile/dpdormouse.bsky.social/post/3lvuzitrplc2f]] As expected the staff member was just doing their job, something that happens thousands of times a day in shops all over the country. As per normal, the trans panic was manufactured. I fully expect all the GCs and media pundits who were pushing all sorts of hate to apologise, but as a person on their second LGBTQ moral panic I know very well how it goes.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:15

TheLudditesWereRight · 09/08/2025 07:13

OP I am broadly GC but I agree that this is really heading down a slippery slope of trans people not being allowed to do normal everyday jobs in public.

@TheLudditesWereRight This has nothing remotely whatsoever to do with trans. This is about a MALE approaching a little girl to discuss underwear with her.

That is inappropriate regardless of if the male is trans or not trans.

illinivich · 10/08/2025 19:18

It he wasn't trans, the TRA would be ignoring this.

It's the fact he's male means everyone with an understanding of boundaries is shocked, and the fact he's trans mean that every TRA is shocked that the boundaries apply to him.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:21

Helleofabore · 09/08/2025 10:29

I also don’t think that some of the people who have been repeating the phrases ‘just doing their job’ and ‘I’m fine with male sales staff discussing bras with me’ genuinely understand what they are supporting when they repeat these phrases.

Many male people harm children while ‘just doing their job’. That was never a defence for inappropriate male behaviour.

And so fucking what that you, personally, are fine with discussing bras with male sales staff. You do you! But what male person understands bra fitting like a female person who has to wear that piece of clothing? And no… male people with breasts have completely different bodies for bra fitting, so no, that dismissal attempt can fuck right off as well before it gets uttered.

What this incident has shone the light on is that M&S not only has poor safeguarding training, and it doesn’t seem to have respect for female shoppers, they also couldn’t care less about provide the high level of service that they seem to aspire to for female people buying bras.

It has highlighted several failures. And rather than hiding behind the ‘inclusive’ sentence they are now putting out to all and sundry, behind the scenes they need to be having some serious discussions about training and safeguarding and how to keep their female customers.

*I also don’t think that some of the people who have been repeating the phrases ‘just doing their job’ and ‘I’m fine with male sales staff discussing bras with me’ genuinely understand what they are supporting when they repeat these phrases.

Many male people harm children while ‘just doing their job’. That was never a defence for inappropriate male behaviour.*

Exactly, putting aside the fact that it was NOT in his job remit to approach customers, saying a male approaching a little girl to talk to her about underwear is 'ok' because it's 'his job' does not make it ok! It is never ever, EVER ok for a male to approach a child and talk to them about underwear. EVER. Whether 'legal' or not.

Penis-panderers have lost sight of SAFEGUARDING because they 'feel sorry' for a confused male. Once again, prioritising the sick 'feelz' of a man, over the needs and rights of a vulnerable innocent little girl!

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:23

illinivich · 10/08/2025 19:18

It he wasn't trans, the TRA would be ignoring this.

It's the fact he's male means everyone with an understanding of boundaries is shocked, and the fact he's trans mean that every TRA is shocked that the boundaries apply to him.

It he wasn't trans, the TRA would be ignoring this.

And that's it, in a nutshell. Trans are the most sacred caste there is that can do no wrong and must be prioritised at ANY and ALL costs. If a man identifies with a man, these penis-panderers would not be defending him. It's only because he wears dresses they pander to him. They cannot see how deeply BRAINWASHED they are by these filthy predators.

PlanetJanette · 10/08/2025 19:25

Ah I see she’s transformed from a 14 year old into a ‘little girl’ now. Whats the matter, not enough traction even with the bra fitting lies, the not supposed to approach customers lies, the not able to work outside department lies?

PlanetJanette · 10/08/2025 19:27

illinivich · 10/08/2025 19:18

It he wasn't trans, the TRA would be ignoring this.

It's the fact he's male means everyone with an understanding of boundaries is shocked, and the fact he's trans mean that every TRA is shocked that the boundaries apply to him.

If the employee wasn’t trans, it wouldn’t have led in national media over several days and the mother’s complaint would never have seen the light of day except perhaps from her anonymous Twitter account. I doubt she’d have made the complaint in the first place.

This was always about vilification of a trans person. Nothing else.

SigourneyHoward · 10/08/2025 19:30

PlanetJanette · 10/08/2025 19:25

Ah I see she’s transformed from a 14 year old into a ‘little girl’ now. Whats the matter, not enough traction even with the bra fitting lies, the not supposed to approach customers lies, the not able to work outside department lies?

Your casual callousness towards a 14yr old girl is chilling. I hope the brownie points are worth it.

illinivich · 10/08/2025 19:32

PlanetJanette · 10/08/2025 19:27

If the employee wasn’t trans, it wouldn’t have led in national media over several days and the mother’s complaint would never have seen the light of day except perhaps from her anonymous Twitter account. I doubt she’d have made the complaint in the first place.

This was always about vilification of a trans person. Nothing else.

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It would have.

But you wouldn't notice.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:33

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/08/2025 13:39

A TRA on Reddit was suggesting that groups of these men should head to M&S lingerie department as a protest. They know full well that it would make women uncomfortable to have a load of men there.

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And they wonder why they are making us HATE transwomen more and more and more! They're the own worst enemy.

illinivich · 10/08/2025 19:34

TRA often forget that feminism, women rights and child safeguarding happen even if they arent at the center of it.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:35

PlanetJanette · 10/08/2025 19:27

If the employee wasn’t trans, it wouldn’t have led in national media over several days and the mother’s complaint would never have seen the light of day except perhaps from her anonymous Twitter account. I doubt she’d have made the complaint in the first place.

This was always about vilification of a trans person. Nothing else.

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This is about a MALE. It never had anything to do with 'trans'.

If a male accosted her daughter to talk about underwear in any other situation, yes, she WOULD have raised the alarm.

So you are ignorant.

SionnachRuadh · 10/08/2025 19:35

PlanetJanette · 10/08/2025 19:25

Ah I see she’s transformed from a 14 year old into a ‘little girl’ now. Whats the matter, not enough traction even with the bra fitting lies, the not supposed to approach customers lies, the not able to work outside department lies?

Why don't you just say she was asking for it? That's clearly where you're going with this.

AnSolas · 10/08/2025 19:35

PlanetJanette · 10/08/2025 14:14

I actually don’t believe trans people can do no wrong. They can and they do. Like all of humanity trans people aren’t a monolith. I certainly do reject the blatant approach of ascribing blame for individual trans people’s actions to the entirety of that cohort, because that is straight out of every oppressors playbook.

As for why I am appalled at what has happened here - it is because this story is nothing other than a trans person, one who could almost certainly be very easily identifiable, being vilified and lied about for doing their job. Even if you are right that they should have used better judgement or that M&S should change their policies (I don’t agree on either count but let’s go with it), acres of coverage about a private individual, a sales person whose only crime was to politely check if a customer needed help and step away when they said no is abhorrent.

It’s like folk in the transphobic cult won’t stop until there’s another Lucy Meadows - and even then I’m sure they’ll find some way to justify the hounding of private individuals doing nothing to justify that vilification. If you’re comfortable with that that’s fine. I’m certainly not and I think anyone who is is deranged.

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Which is it?

M&Ss male staff can and do work across all and any department.

Or

There is zero suggestion of any male person doing any bra fittings at M&S.

Both things can not be true at M&S the same time.

So either M&S is telling lies and males staff can and do work in bra fitting

Or M&S exclude male staff from some roles and some departments.

M&S have rather managed to hoist themselves on their own petard with that Schrödungers cat conundrum 🐈🐈‍⬛🐆

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:44

PlanetJanette · 09/08/2025 18:46

Understanding why people had issues…based on falsehoods though.

Look at the repeated use of the term ‘accosted’ here. Accosted has a specific meaning about approaching someone in an aggressive, confrontational or threatening way. It is objectively not what happened here and yet it doesn’t stop people claiming it is.

Look at the repeated claim that the employee didn’t even work in the department. Except that M&S has confirmed that the premise of that statement is wrong, since employees can work across all departments.

Look at the claim that M&S policy is not to approach customers - and yet they are explicit in a job description that employees are in fact expected to ‘proactively engage’ with customers.

Three demonstrably false premises underpinning arguments on here, casually thrown about with no regard for the truth.

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Accosted means approach. It can, be aggressive, but doesn't have to be.

M&S have confirmed he was supposed to be working in Homeware. So you are wrong that we are wrong that 'he didn't work in that department'. M&S CONFIRMED he didn't. Are you calling M&S liars?

Proactively engage, WHEN THE CUSTOMER APPRAOCHES THEM. It does not mean approach customers.

So your counter claims are DEMONSTRABLY FALSE.

DeanElderberry · 10/08/2025 19:48

The suspicion is that if the male employee who made advances to the young teenage girl apparently alone in the underwear section of the store had not been trans, M&S would have responded to a complaint promptly and decisively and been able to assure the mother they knew there was a breach of their safeguarding measures.

But they fumbled it because the male had a trans identity, and it was only after the Supreme Court ruling that the mother felt confident to put the matter in writing.

The confusion between sex and gender has led to safeguarding failures. TRAs are distressed that these are now, belatedly, being addressed.

The other thing some people seem to be confused about is the difference between adults and those legally defined as children. A 14 year old is legally a child, and should be protected from harmful adult action.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:49

PlanetJanette · 09/08/2025 20:59

Accosted is too strong a word. You’re right. And used in order to lie about what happened here.

The other bits don’t make sense I’m afraid. The only line M&S have communicated on this is that their employees work across Departments. An anonymous Twitter account claiming someone in the shop told her something is a far less authoritative source of M&S operating model than the actual words from the company itself. So those claiming that this employee was somehow wrong to help customers in a Department that wasn’t their own are just lying. They were acting in line with M&S’s confirmed operating model.

And even in your own post you need to lie about what happened. You know that ‘M&S staff don’t just approach customers to check if they need any help’ would sound ridiculous. So suddenly the employee was ‘hovering around’ (zero evidence) and asking if they wanted anything in particular (which is a different and far more unusual question to ‘do you need any help’).

Why is it that you think so many people have to lie about this story? If you were so convinced that what happened is wrong, why not just describe it accurately as a ‘trans woman (not confirmed but let’s assume) politely asked a mother and daughter whether they needed help while they were shopping in the lingerie department, and when they said no, went about her business’?

If what actually happened was so self evidently outrageous, then there would be no need to invent that they were ‘accosted’ or that the employee was ‘hovering around’, would there?

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Why is it that you have to lie?

We have no evidence this 'tweet' is actually from M&S. It looks mocked up in Word/Publisher.

What we DO know, is that M&S confirmed to the mother that he should have been in Homeware. That is what we know.

We also know, per M&S and per other employees on twitter, that M&S don't allow their employees to approach customers. One of them with his full name on his twitter account, and location, has confirmed this.

Yet you're eager to buy the LIES of some account that created a couple of documents in Word or Publisher.

Why do you need to lie, @PlanetJanette , and why do you need to believe lies, JUST to push your agenda that it's ok for males to be predators as long as they claim to be 'trans'?

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:52

PlanetJanette · 09/08/2025 21:08

Because a sales assistant of any sex politely checking if customers need help and going about their day if they say no isn’t a safeguarding issue, even if the customers are a mother shopping with her teenage daughter.

Which is why every description of what happened has to outright lie (eg JKR telling her millions of followers that the employee was offering bra fitting, claiming that the girl was ‘accosted’, that the employee was ‘hovering around’), or to use really fucking weird language like the employee ‘made contact’ as if she was an extra terrestrial being bumping into the girl.

The lies are necessary because no one believes that what actually happened is actually some outrageous breach of safeguarding.

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A MALE asking a girl about bras IS a safeguarding issue in ANYone's mind if they aren't truly messed up in the head. It's a MAJOR safeguarding issue for a male to approach a child to talk about underwear, INSTEAD OF GETTING A FEMALE ASSISTANT.

Which is why you have to LIE about everything else. Quibbelling over the 'wording' of accost is because you have no argument, so you have to desperately resort to picking over the meaning of the word. And we can all see it.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 19:56

PlanetJanette · 09/08/2025 21:11

Or as if those of us who do not want our trans friends to suffer recognise an absolutely abhorrent and dangerous trend of transphobes to identify a specific individual and use a pliant media and celebrity power to actively lie about them.

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Why does a male being 'trans' mean he is EXEMPT from basic common decency and safeguarding?

There is an abhorrent and dangerous trend of femphobes, misogynist bigots and predator-enablers and penis-panderers throwing women and girls to the wolfs, IF THAT MAN HAS A DRESS.'

Why is that? Why are you seeking to tear down safeguarding (and you didn't have the guts to answer my question on the other thread) based on a MALE'S say-so??

No male should be approaching a girl in the lingerie section. No matter HOW he 'identifies'. He is getting heat because he is male. Not for any other reason. So don't be disingenuous.

Why do you think a male in a dress should be exempt from safeguarding and rules that all other males have to follow? Please have the guts and the human decency to answer me that.

Ariana12 · 10/08/2025 19:59

The trans (TiM) employee approached a young girl (14) in the lingerie department to offer his help with buying a bra. Totally normal. Nothing to see here. I'm always being approached/accosted by staff in M&S offering to help me with underwear purchases. Totally normal. I never have to traipse around trying to find someone to answer a Q. Oh and that completely explains why M&S apologised. Nothing to see here.

AnSolas · 10/08/2025 20:00

PlanetJanette · 10/08/2025 19:27

If the employee wasn’t trans, it wouldn’t have led in national media over several days and the mother’s complaint would never have seen the light of day except perhaps from her anonymous Twitter account. I doubt she’d have made the complaint in the first place.

This was always about vilification of a trans person. Nothing else.

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I doubt she’d have made the complaint in the first place.

Thats an ugly claim with zero foundation.

He was old enough to be employed by M&S so he is old enough to understand he should not go up to a 14 year old girl in the underwear department and begin a discussion about the surrounding products.

He knows or should know that such conduct is not socially acceptable and that even for a male shop assistant it is inappropiate contact with a female child.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 20:00

PlanetJanette · 09/08/2025 21:14

So what’s your explanation as to why so many people talking about how outrageous this all is have to lie about what happened.

If ‘trans sales assistant politely checks if mother and teenage daughter shopping in lingerie department need help and goes about her day when they say no’ is really an outrageous safeguarding risk, why are so many folk like JKR having to lie and embellish?

There’s a very simple answer - none of you actually believe that what actually happened stands up as anything even vaguely worthy of the outrage.

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No one is lying.

The only one lying here, is you. And your ilk.

Why do you have to LIE, @PlanetJanette ? Please answer that.

FFS, you are not listening to us! It is NOT about "trans sales assistant". It's ABOUT A MALE!!!!!

Why do you have to outright LIE and MISREPRESENT? Is it because you know that defending a MALE approaching a girl in the lingerie section is never ok, but if you PRETEND it's about trans, then the male can get away with it? Because you know, in your heart of hearts, you cannot defend it any other way.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 20:02

SabrinaThwaite · 09/08/2025 21:28

At no point did JKR mention bra fitting.

She mentioned the M&S employee offering help with bras.

There's a difference.

HTH.

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Planet is just like the energiser bunny. She just lies and lies and lies!

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 20:05

PlanetJanette · 09/08/2025 22:59

So no explanation on why so many people feel the need to lie about what happened?

What a surprise?

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The only one lying here, is you.

No explanation why you lied about JKR, why you lied about the male, and you lied about the mother?

Why do you need to lie so much, PlanetJanette? Is it because you know your position of letting a male approach a girl to talk about underwear is utterly untenable to well, healthy, decent human beings?

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 20:08

PlanetJanette · 09/08/2025 23:03

We can surely agree that lying about what a trans person did in order to whip up outrage is transphobic though, right?

Since you’re so compassionate and all, I assume you’ll have no problem in recognising that lying about someone from a minority group in order to stoke outrage relating to common tropes about that group is one of the hallmarks of bigotry?

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A MALE approached a girl (on a floor he wasn't even working on, who was minding her business browsing, and FLED when the mother appeared) to talk about underwear.

Whether he was trans, half-trans, non-binary, double-non-binary, hetero, gay, bi, metrosexual etc is irrelevant.

A MALE approached a girl to discuss lingerie. That, is the start argument and end argument.

Oh, and males are 50% of the population. Males are the oppressor and predator sex. Putting a dress on does NOT make that fox - that predatorial oppressor male, a 'minority'.

ThatBlackCat · 10/08/2025 20:10

PlanetJanette · 09/08/2025 23:06

Another one refusing to venture a suggestion on why so many people feel the need to lie about what happened.

Occams razor applies here. If one side needs to spread falsehoods about something that happened, the simplest explanation is that what actually happened didn’t support their arguments.

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You are the only one lying here. You've lied about so many people, not just JKR.

Occams razor - if you have to outright LIE and spread falsehoods to defend your flimys Mens Rights bigoted narrative, it's because your 'narrative' is a lie, a house of cards built on quicksand.