European Convention on Human Rights

[JellySaurus]

ARTICLE 8 the right to respect for private and family life, and Article 12 the right to marry, are used as to justify the requirement for the UK government to legally recognise people as the opposite sex. (Redundant, now that same-sex marriage is legal.)

8.1 Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

But why is 8.2, which is not mentioned in Article 12 but appears in similar form in many other Articles, not used as an argument for removing the GRA from our law?

8.2 There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Enabling men to access female single-sex spaces has resulted in crimes: women and girls being assaulted and raped. Medical transition causes long-term ill-health. Telling children that they may not be the sex they are, or that they have to pretend that somebody is not the sex they are, is immoral as it subverts safeguarding. Multiple court cases have demonstrated that transgenderism illegally restricts the rights and freedoms of others.

Isn’t it time to recognise this?

The Trans and ‘NB’ community even separated themselves from the LGB groups at London Pride in order to hold their own celebrations in Soho Village.

They are indeed homophobic.

3% of the LGBTQ people think it should be LGB. Stop talking over the LGBTQ+ community and recognise that we are teamed because we've both faced the same bigotry that looks almost identical.

Once again: how many prisoners have the vote ?

No, we're not going to roll over and accept discrimination. The bathroom ban is unenforceable, all this means is more people are going stealth like me

lol the ECHR has no power over the laws of the UK. It can ask/suggest/demand but it actually can't enforce anything - it's not as if it can sack parliament or send in an army is i

plus of course in the UK they are toilets not bathrooms so off you pop

You mean you as a man are invading women's spaces and relying on women's natural socialisation not to approach men and tell them "no" on the basis that men can get very angry very quickly

which you'd know if you were an actual woman

Going stealth consists of what exactly?

I am a woman, I look like a woman so I use women's spaces. There my spaces too.

All human rights are enumerated within the framework of having to run a country. That's why they are qualified.

For example everyone has the right to liberty. Yet we can lock people up. Because it turns out that being naughty isn't a human right.

Even the right to life is qualified - after all France was happily decapitating wrong'uns into the 70s.

I think they key point at the heart of the OP is not marriage, which Cannongoose's reply focuses on, but what happens in a democratic society when two groups make claims which are inimical to each other.

One of the glaring problems with transgenderism is that it erases the terms by which two important social groups, women and men, are defined.
You can have all the charters, declarations, Magna Cartas, proclamations, etc in the world declaring that women have certain rights specific to them, or people with disabilities, or other groups in society, have certain rights specific to them.
Definition of terms is essential in identifying these groups and guaranteeing them their rights.

A very very small, but very vocal group of men claim to be women, and claim they are therefore entitled to rights specific to women as a social group. This obliterates the established meaning of the term 'woman', and makes laws which are set up to confirms the rights of the group 'women' mean nothing, if the definition of 'women' includes 'men'.

It means that women as a social group lose the rights that they have been guaranteed in the past, such as the right to single-sex spaces in certain circumstances.
Women lose our sex-specific rights if anybody, regardless of biological sex, can legally identify as a woman, just as people with disabilities would lose rights to reasonable adjustments such as designated parking spaces if the entire population could legally identify as disabled.
Without clear definition of terms, specific rights and entitlements are paper tigers.

I believe that defining 'woman' as 'biological woman', excluding all biological men, regardless of how they identify, is covered by

8.2 There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society ...for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

because allowing anybody to identify into social groups they do not belong to is inimical to the rights and freedoms of those groups.

No it's not.

You are looking at the figures you like.

Younger teens don't share those views and as people get jobs and have kids it changes.

You are right about the matter of time, but not in the way you want. It's all about the insurance and the scandals.

As for the smear about bacon - you could have used an example that was unacceptable and she admitted to. But not, you choose the one smear that was a load of utter bollocks. Which shows a lot about where you get your info from.

So you admit to being a creep who deliberately wants to mislead women and go against their consent?

Good stuff. At least you admit it.

But you aren’t banned from using a loo. The expectation is just that you use the toilet of your sex.

Not your identity. Not your wish. Not your gender. Not your expression. Not your outfit. Not your makeup. Your sex.

Being “stealth” just means you’re abusive and demonstrating stereotypical patterns of male behaviour.

@AYoungTransWoman, when you refer to an increase in people with trans identities ‘going stealth’ what does this entail? What are they going or not doing now that will change when ‘going stealth’?

How exactly do you look like a woman?

Dress, hair length, make up, fake boobs? That is, externals.

Or skeletal structure, musculature, bodily proportions, gait? The things that mark a human being as male or female to any woman with eyes.

Exactly.

They don't want to use third spaces because the whole point is using the women in the spaces.

The more we see of this, the more the public will kick back.

So as other groups have learned when they've tried to challenge it (e.g. prisoner votes) article 8 is basically not worth the paper it's written on due to 8.2 and the ECHR has no teeth to enforce anything. The government can just say they're doing it for the "protection of morals" or "prevention of harm to others" and that basically covers everything.

While I agree this will coincidentally work well for the situation of keeping trans people out of bathrooms, I do also think that the feeble way article 8 is written has set itself up to be misused by bad governments around the world who have no case to answer for horrific interferences with people's private lives and family lives (where they even half-heartedly subscribe to the UN declaration of human rights). Even in this country 8.2 is being misused.

But overall, no, TRAs can't frustrate the laws of a country with "article 8 wahhhhh" because otherwise people would be doing it to sort out some really horrible shit that's screwing people over for reasons not of their own making.

The ECHR has already told you that's wrong in Goodwin v UK

Oh dear, AYoungTransWoman, you really need to read the room before making statements like that!

We all have to accept discrimination in life - like people without driving licences being discriminated against by not being allowed drive on public roads, or 35-year-olds being discriminated against by not receiving the old age pension..

Discrimination is not wrong; unfair discrimination is, but there's nothing unfair about stating that the terms 'women' and 'men', when used in legislation, follow the established, scientific, biological definitions, not what people feel they should mean.

And asserting as some kind of badge of honour that males like you are going to continue using facilities designated for women shows a disrespect for the law, and a disrespect for women's right to privacy, comfort and all the other things that transwomen seem to think they alone are entitled to. Bravo..

And the use of the word 'bathroom' instead of 'toilet' -
When visiting a private house I might well ask if I may 'use the bathroom', but if I was in a public space like a shopping centre or a museum or a sports stadium and I asked 'where is the women's bathroom?' I'd get very strange looks, and 'Yeh whaa? you mean the toilets?' because everybody knows that toilets in public venues do not have baths in them.

I'm banned from using the toilet. It's not safe for women to use the mens

You're not a woman

how does one look like a woman? Are women who wear trousers and have a buzz cut not women?

i mean do you ever stop to think how bloody insulting it is for a man to pop on a dress, grow his hair, put on done make up and e voila! Woman!

of course none of the biological
inconveniences of womanhood like periods or pregnancy or menopause. No lifetime of female socialisation to be nice, no being ignored - that's how we know TW are men because if they were actually women they'd be ignored

your level of contempt for women is breathtaking

We know. That’s we don’t want men in ladies loos. Whatever you wear.

Exactly. There’s literally no point trying to argue with that level of ideological blinkeredness.

Whether it violates women’s human rights (it does) for men to be allowed to oppress women in this way has never been tested by the ECHR, has it? Bring it on, I say.

I'm a woman because I am transsexual with gender dysphoria and have taken steps to alter my biology. I have taken hormones, and I am getting surgery.

I haven't just put a dress on and voila, that's not what a trans person is.