Reform gets confused by men in dresses

[fromorbit]

Looks like we need a thread to discuss how Reform finds it difficult to work out the difference between men and women after recent developments. This is not surprising at all remember it was the Tories who were key playing is promoting this stuff in the first place. Trump was previously fine with trans stuff. Gender ideas are regressive and conservative so they will always have a place on the right, though the left are pushing it hard as well.

Nigel Farage will NOT pledge to ban trans inmates from women's jails
By CLAIRE ELLICOTT WHITEHALL EDITOR

Nigel Farage has failed to commit to banning trans women from female prisons after his new justice adviser said they should not be automatically barred.

Vanessa Frake, a former prison governor who oversaw the detention of Rose West, said decisions on where to house inmates should be made on an 'individual basis'.

Asked for his views on her comments yesterday, the Reform UK leader told the Daily Mail: 'I've personally never worked in a prison so I can't answer [the question] but I think you'll find that the answer that you'll get from somebody who has worked in prisons at the highest possible level is, I think, basically it's about risk assessment, isn't it?

'But in terms of the problems in prisons, it's a relatively small one.'

A Reform spokesman later added of Ms Frake: 'An ex-prison governor... has a different opinion. That does not constitute party policy.'

In an interview to mark her appointment, Ms Frake said decisions about trans prisoners should be made on a case-by-case basis. But she told The Times that sexual offenders may need to be held in male prisons.

'It's all about the risk assessments for me, and each has to be done on an individual basis,' she said.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14970333/Nigel-Farage-NOT-pledge-ban-trans-inmates-womens-jails.html

Some sense from Joan Smith

Even Reform UK is falling prey to gender ideology Joan Smith
https://archive.ph/pIjQj

Even Reform UK, which has tried to position itself as a refuge for voters who are fed up with the trans-obsessed rhetoric of other parties, can’t keep its recruits on-message. A former prison governor, Vanessa Frake, had barely been announced as the party’s new justice advisor when she <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/pIjQj/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/08/04/reform-prison-tsar-vanessa-frake-trans-women-female-jails/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">declared that trans women should not be barred from women’s prisons. Her argument, which is unusual to say the least, seems to be that some female prisoners are horrible people, so it makes no sense to exclude trans-identified males.

They either exist or they don't. Mumsnet is a big place. Just link what you mean and we can see what you are going on about.

Surely putting men in women's prisons would require a law change now with the SC ruling. Does anyone know if all the men in women's prisons have been removed to the male estate now? If not surely it is only a matter of time before there will be a legal challenge. There was a JR previously wasn't there. I wonder if that would have succeeded now?

We have to be mindfull of the man who has spent 30 years living as a women, who is in prision for, presumably, jaywalking.

As I say, if you can't find a few threads that were clearly started to peddle an agenda of an unstoppable Reform revolution than maybe I am being overly cynical.

I am hoping that such self awareness will prove a vaccine against the Reformabollocks I fear.

I dont think its the EqA that allows men into womens prisons. And i know that its been going on for longer than the EqA or the GRA.

But it would be odd for women and female to mean significantly different things in different laws

Nigel seems to have updated his views on the matter. If you don’t want to or can’t look on X apparently he’s never supported men in women’s prisons.

https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1952673173587055002?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

Im i imagining things or did see a press conference where he said he wasnt an expert on prisions and would defer to those who were? Then laughed?

Im not going to vote for him, so what do i care, but hes as slippery as the rest of them.

Indeed. The other parties don’t even need to placate the trans lobby, they aren’t in a position to change the law.

I think their best hope is to do a deal with the Tories. They can’t be dismissed as easily as some posters might hope, though.

As things stand I won’t be voting for any of them.

He said it was a matter of a risk assessment. Vanessa Frake had said case by case risk assessment. They think we're stupid.

That would be the kiss of death for Reform. Never going to happen.

Yes. That man has committed to this for 30 years, he's earned the right to use women as support humans for his validation.

Even if we look at it from an individual rights perspective, what about those women's rights? There are reasons we don't have mixed sex prisons and it's not because every single male prisoner would be a threat to women's safety. Men shouldn't be in women's spaces. Not even nice, harmless men.

It's so depressing to realise there are that many men out there who don't seem to see women as fully human. They don't even realise that they're putting the cross-dressing man's rights above women's. They claim that there's no conflict.

In the meantime those men who ID as women frequently get no jail time (even when they are violent offenders) because the judges perceive them to be so vulnerable that they can't possibly send them to prison...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/27/hammer-wielding-wine-thief-spared-prison-transgender/

Allowing men in women's prisons is covered by the EA2010 ruling - sex is biological so transwomen, who are biological males, cannot be incarcerated in a female prison. Reform, who I don't like anyway, will come unstuck on this one.
When was Trump pro-trans - he banned transmen from the military last time he was POTUS?

Before he was POTUS he was quite liberal about men in women’s spaces and the “bathroom bills” etc. He was mates with Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner IIRC.

I seem to remember that Caitlin Jenner has been quite outspoken about the fact that he recognises he is still a biological male, always will be and is happy to be acknowledged as such. He doesn't support TRA's.

So basically he hasn't got a fucking clue, is trying to waffleblag without failing into the trap of being easy to accuse as bigoted (he actually does this a lot with race/immigration).

He DOES identity the need for risk assessing as quite frankly anyone with half a brain cell should be able to - though there's far too many politicians who successfully fail this test.

And he CLEARLY has not a fucking clue about the Supreme Ruling and it's implications for this and how legally men really shouldn't be being housed with women in prisons after it because it leaves the prison service vulnerable to getting its arse sued.

This is fairly typical of Farage. He is hot air and has a very basic level grasp of subjects and very little knowledge in the way of details, implementation or real world practicalities. He's not one of life's doers. He's one of life's windbags.

And yet in demonstrating his ignorance at the same time as managing to demonstrate a level of common sense and competence which has managed to escape Labour Cabinet members and members of equality committees who REALLY should be up to date with the law and it's implications.

It's depressing on absolutely every front.

We should not be surprised. Womens rights aren't exactly Farages niche specialised interest now are they?!

To put it sarcastically.

He was caught out by that question, and as Kemi Badenoch said it was because he's given it no thought. He definitely looked uncomfortable.

It would also be a kiss of death for the Tories...who if they hold out long enough and get rid of people like Robert Jenrick...have half a chance of revival in a few years.

Nah, the Tories are a dead party walking. They managed single handedly to lose the demographic of their party that made billions from trading with Europe. That isn't going to be forgotten overnight. They made damn sure there was no moderate base from which to build back, leading to the absolute shower we have now.

If Robert Jenrick is the answer, the question must have been about turnips.

He has been more recently. Not always.

I don't agree. It could take a few years......but if Reform do get in they will inevitably disappoint and be something of a basket case not to be repeated. Jeremy Corbyn's new grouping ( if many MPs actually do defect) will take some the heat off Labour...and then both Labour and the Tories have a chance of becoming more pragmatic centre Right and Centre Left parties......

I hope Robert Jenrick departs for Reform.

Reform won't "get in". They best they can hope for would be a hung parliament. But even then they would struggle to find a partner that could make a majority.

By that time, the Tories will have completely pushed away the final vestiges of moderation and be full on headbanging fascists. A fate they could have succumbed to a century ago had not some real fascists spoiled the party.

Meanwhile a shift in the electoral system will serve to confuse the voters for a couple of elections.