M&S apologises over trans employee in bra department (Telegraph)

[WimbledonWhites]

How many “cis” male members of staff do you suppose would approach teenage girls in the lingerie department?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/04/ms-apologises-over-trans-employee-in-bra-department/

https://archive.ph/nTDB9archive.ph/nTDB9

Your point being?

Three pages of comments and no one has thought to clarify what kind of help was offered? The article doesn’t specify. In my M&S the underwear section is not curtained off like some scandalous part of the store that must not be seen - it’s all lumped together with tights and pyjamas and socks.

The conversation could have gone: ‘hello, would you like some help?’ ‘Yeah we want to try this bra on’ ‘ok, I’ll just grab a colleague who can open the changing rooms/get you the correct size/do a bra fitting for you’.

I’m a big believer in single sex spaces for both women AND men, and don’t really believe that people can change sex, but this seems like it COULD have been a massive non-issue and because the article is so light on details - I suspect it might be.

M&S staff don’t approach customers to offer help so why would he be offering to help a teenager in the bra section. That’s awful for her. My DP avoids going into the lingerie department with me precisely because he doesn’t want the other women there to feel uncomfortable. That’s respectful behaviour. There is no need for any male to be there, and especially not talking to teenagers.

“It” is dehumanising.

He is correct, and you’re allowed to say that. This man is still a person not a thing.

I have had a male doctor and sonographer for some gynae appointments and I can tell you without fail, I have always been asked whether I wanted a Chaperone or a female has always been in the appointment with us. I mean, my male GP once asked me whether I wanted a chaperone before he could examine my tummy. I once had a male nurse but he only helped me move off the bed and wasn’t involved in personal care/hygiene because as a normal man he knows his boundaries. Any man, whether or not he is wearing makeup or a dress, should know that. Otherwise yes I would think they were perverts. You and your daughter do not need to put up with this. You should have asked for a female to be present/to do the changing.

So you ARE ignorant. Gotcha.

Just use ‘they’. You already do it once in your post!

This member of staff wasn't even one of the measurers...so many red flags.

Yes, let’s make the girl and her mother the problem here 🤦‍♀️ how can you possibly believe his actions were anything other than massively inappropriate?

Transwomen who use women as fodder for validation are denying the humanity of women, treating them as tools - an objectification of women that many other men also engage in, in service of their needs.

The response to that should not be to dehumanise and objectify men too. It should be an acknowledgement of the humanity of women.

It is profoundly horrifying to see any person referred to as 'it'. This isn't a question of 'be kind'. We can't operate morally unless we acknowledge the humanity of others, even wrongdoers. Also, use of the term 'it' for a person is so disgustingly base that it risks tainting and undermining all the legitimate objections to this man's behaviour

Exactly. Why put yourself in that position unless the fetish urge is too strong? Same goes with Rape crisis centres.

<sighs wearily>
There are different sorts of transwomen.

I know one who is a young gay man clearly having identity issues. He is very gentle and completely harmless to women.

OTOH... perhaps look up autogynephilia. Or pause a moment to consider the massive safeguarding issues that result from allowing men to cosplay as women and treating those men as a sacred caste.

I used to work in a primary school and the safeguarding was epic. Even the grandmother of one of the pupils who came into hear readers once a week, and who was well known socially to several of the staff, and was never alone with a child other than in a corridor with people coming and going - well, she had to have a DBS check and all the rest.

I'm sorry, but you are naive.

Not all biological males have massive hands and huge Adam’s apples. Any more than all biological females have huge breasts and small waists. Such lazy stereotypical thinking.

I mean, by the same logic, you’d assume all short, slightly built men are transmen?

Men approaching girls in shops to talk about underwear - yup. Creepy.

Let alone one who is wearing women's clothes to do so.

So many people tying themselves in knots to excuse this.
Any decent male person knows that approaching a teenage girl in the lingerie department to offer help would be inappropriate and would almost certainly make her very uncomfortable.
Decent male people, whether trans or not, would never do this.
The employee crossed a line. He knows it. M&S knows it and so do we.
The only people who seem to be confused are those who think its perfectly innocent for a male stranger to approach a young girl to talk about underwear as long as he wears enough make up and a dress.
But I do agree that thinking that is not naive. It's wilful blindness.

Learn to take a joke jeez.

But all males are male, which expresses itself on the human body in more ways than we are conscious of and is immediately recognizable in almost all cases for obvious reasons relating to reproductive science...

Was he pretending to be a woman?

Oh dear

I have just written you off as someone who can not read the opening post and work out what the word lingerie means. 👀 🤷‍♀️

Using ‘it’ is dehumanising. Whether you agree that people can be trans or not, they are still a person.

Eh?

man approaches teen girl and asks about her bra? He doesn't need moving, he needs sacking and reporting to the police

The mindset is pretty simple to explain.

First and foremost, you are taught that the most important rule is to 'be kind' in all situations.

After that you only need one extra rule - something like - whenever I refer to or interact with them, I will treat them like they are my best friend of their preferred gender.

This of course nullifies all safeguarding but, you know, 'be kind'

A couple of years ago, my friend visited M&S for her 12 year old daughter’s first bra fitting. They were presented with a trans women to do the fitting. After some initial and awkward conversation, they made their excuses and left but her daughter was shocked and upset. It was so inappropriate but my friend didn’t want to make a fuss! I just don’t know how anyone thought this was ok.

Those who know lovely trans friends and think it’s overreach to claim this is pervy behaviour, your lovely friends aren't pervs etc….

No one thinks their own behaviour is pervy. Everyone thinks they mean no harm. Everyone seems nice to their friends. We all think our interests and interactions are innocent.
The boys at school just want a peek, they aren’t pervy, just curious. It’s all totally innocent, they are just wondering, just wanting to be helpful, just offering a tampon out of sheer generosity and philanthropy.

No. When your innocent desire to help/peek/join in is more important than the other person’s preference for you to mind your own business, it’s creepy and pervy. Doing something someone else doesn’t want you to do because you mean no harm is creepy.

So if your nice trans friends don’t mean any harm when they use women’s spaces, are just offering to help the girls in the clothing section etc well they are creepy.

Good men stay out so bad men stand out.

It’s a saying to illustrate that any man in a women’s space is by definition not a good man, because good men stay out.

If good men start hanging around women’s spaces with their wives and girlfriends, it’s harder to spot the bad guys.