M&S apologises over trans employee in bra department (Telegraph)

[WimbledonWhites]

How many “cis” male members of staff do you suppose would approach teenage girls in the lingerie department?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/04/ms-apologises-over-trans-employee-in-bra-department/

https://archive.ph/nTDB9archive.ph/nTDB9

You may not personally have an issue with it, but I'm sure you can understand that many teenage girls would find having a man doing their bra fitting entirely inappropriate and wrong on multiple levels.

You don't get to consent on behalf of them, as I'm sure you are aware.

And it's not the bra fitting itself. It's a man, approaching a young girl in a lingerie department, unprompted. I'd find that very inappropriate in a circumstances.

‘Sensible jumpers’ - I like that!

‘Honestly, put that one back, that colour really will NOT suit you.’

Would have been handy for colour-blind dh, when he was still trying to buy his own clothes. (But not any more.)

This. Women and children are being trained to be kind, lose any sense of appropriate boundaries and go along with others' sexual fantasies. Those of us who have experienced autogynephiles in our social circles and lives know what this is really all about — misogyny and fetish. Safeguarding has been thrown to the wind in the rush to be right-on.

I have just been to M&S to buy a sports bra. I might have gone somewhere else but there is nowhere except the ones they sell in sports shops which are too small for me.

I spent a lot of time looking lost, couldn’t find them, and then ages rifling through the racks looking for sizes. There was a female member of staff about, she didn’t speak to me. There was no one on the changing room either.
I would never expect someone to talk to me on the floor unless I asked, it’s never been their way. I went into white stuff and someone asked if I needed help within 2 seconds even though I hadn’t looked at anything, but I assume they are made to in there.

Any male person who demands to use a female single sex space or who demands that female language is used for them is not 'just wanting to live their lives' and I think any person who trots out the line of wanting to live their lives needs to understand this.

If your male friends with transgender identities never use female single sex spaces, and don't expect anyone to use female language for them then sure, they are wanting to just live their lives.

I suspect that once it became the fetishists dream store where they could leave their reviews on line and be celebrated for it, that of course they would be applying for jobs there.

To be clear though, as I also agree around discussing factual information, nowhere does it say that he is just a male not understanding women's boundaries. In no way can we assume this. We simply do not know what their intentions were. And the intentions, albeit unfounded, are actually worth debating as a risk assessment.

Agree. The statement that he's 'just a male not understanding women's boundaries' is a poster's opinion, not drawn from (or inferred from, or arising from a misreading of) the article.

Didn’t I say it wasn’t appropriate?

Why are M&S having men working in their female underwear department?

@Lulu49 do you feel that your opinions trump the rights of all women to single sex spaces? I know a number of men with gender dysphoria - the "true trans" if you like. They are still men and know they are. They identify as and with women and they are nervous of men so appreciate how women feel. Neither behave in any way inappropriately and are very discrete and focused on women and girls comfort - they respect and try hard to fit in - they would NEVER get a job in M&S and do this. The type of man in a dress that does this is a fetishist - either someone wanting women to feel upset and uncomfortable or validate their fake identity.
I think your 'kindness' is a risk to all women, and especially your own daughter. You give away her rights without a thought in your post, to pander to your male friends. Think about it.

Yes, there's a big difference - he wasn't pretending to be a woman.

Quote from Reddit:

"I love how a cis woman Having A Feeling [disgust] equates to having violence done to them, somehow."

😅
That's definitely one for your Encyclopedia of Appropriation, @MarieDeGournay !

How many times has an actual female employee approached a middle-aged female customer in a large clothing store like M&S and offered unsolicited help? It happens in small boutique stores but in M&S it takes a few minutes to find an employee and interrupt what they are doing if you need help, they don't usually volunteer unasked. This happened specifically because the customer looked young and vulnerable and specifically because the male employee was roleplaying a fantasy for kicks. Perv is an entirely appropriate verb for this.

Most trans people (yes there are always some dodgy ones) genuinely think they have been born in the wrong body. So this one probably just thinks they are a women, and wants to ‘be’ one, doesn’t mean they have any pervert ideas

You sweet summer child.

In my city centre branch, if you enter the store at the back where it opens out into a mall rather than the street, and go up the stairs/escalator to your left, you will find yourself in the lingerie section. If a man wanted then to go to the menswear or home departments on the next floor, he would have to walk through the lingerie dept to the central escalator bank. Perhaps the store should have signs up asking men to use the front entrance only? Or not to use the stairs at the rear of the store?

They know perfectly well they are men, don't be ridiculous.

If they had any actual idea what it was like to be a woman, the last thing they'd do is cause problems for women by bringing their male bodies into spaces where women don't want them.

Well, let's give the person the benefit of the doubt and say they were just trying to be helpful. It's still inappropriate to be a male person approaching a young female person in a bra department. The person needs to be made aware of that.

And as many others have pointed out, it's not normal M&S staff practice to approach customers with offers of help.

I don't think anyone has a problem with a man walking through part of the store to get somewhere else. A women's underwear department is not a single sex space. As long as men are behaving themselves nobody is going to throw them out.

Have a think about the typical middle-aged man who “comes out” as trans. It’s all skirts and stockings and knickers and make up and hair. Performative femininity. They absolutely get off on it.

This, even if they are the tiny minority of TIM who have gone further than a bit of lippy and a padded bra they will know every time they pee, every time they see their male pattern baldness, every time they speak, every time they use their male puberty endowed muscle to shift a sideboard or unscrew a lid.

I was watching a programme on tv last night about early humans. The presenter held the 12,000 year old skeletal remains of an early human living in the NW of what is now the USA. Nothing is known of the community, there are no artefacts, clothing or possessions left, but she knew within seconds that the single pelvic bone and lower jaw she was showing were those of a male.

Women and girls are being trained to be compliant and accept the presence and interventions of trans identifying men in places where we could previously assume would be free from men.

This is the crucial part, although I'd scrap the 'trans identifying', given that we are scolded for judging any male or assuming anything about identity. So it becomes:

Women and girls are being trained to be compliant and accept the presence and interventions of men.

And that is absolutely the worst of it. Girls and women have always, always been scolded and shamed for daring to say no to men, for being difficult or arsey or nasty or unkind. The whole of female socialisation is teaching us to minimise our own preferences, fears, worries, thoughts, and desires, and the outcome is always, always to better cater for men's preferences, fears, worries, thoughts and desires.

We're told we're prudes or uptight or scolds or nasty bitches or bigots or phobes. Why? Because we don't do as the men want.

That's always what it boils down to.

'Women must sacrifice their rights, so that men can better enjoy their rights.'

Women must cede everything, even our own identity, to accept what men tell us.

Transwomen are women, and no woman should dare to say otherwise.

It this person was as innocent as you are desperate to believe, they would have been getting on with a myriad of tasks like stock replenishing and relocating items from fitting rooms rejection rails back to the display rails, and all the other thinfs that staff have to do when they aren't on the tills. Not sharking a young girl. No ordinary female employee of M&S would have approached the teenager in this kind of scenario. Neither would a trans employee who didn't have an ulterior motive. They would be too busy but would obviously be pleased to help if the girl approached them and asked for assistance (which she didn't).

I wonder how many of the ‘be kind’ brigade would see a lone man standing at a nursery school playground taking photos and would give him the benefit of the doubt with ‘well maybe he’s just really interested in fence panelling?’ Or would they use their instincts to say something seems off here?