Just, wow.

[FancyNewt]

I stopped at a pub today on the way to our holiday destination . I'm not going to say where as it doesn't matter. But inside they had 2 toilets
One labelled men and the other 'inclusive' with signs for M and F.

I've always known the whole trans issue was inherently a greater issue for women but to see it so blatantly on the doors of toilets was sobering. Eg Men are provided with single sex spaces, but women. Tough.

Yes I know it's illegal and I could have said something. I chose not to though, as rightly or wrong l didn't want to cause a scene with my family present on a way to a holiday.

I am going to contact the pub instead.

Maybe we should start a thread where we list all the public venues we come across that don’t have single sex spaces. Then women would be forewarned and we could write to the ehrc with the list to illustrate how much of an issue this is. I suspect some of these places aren’t going to change unless there is a legal threat

You might be fine sharing a toilet area with men. Other women aren't. 98% of sexual offenders are male and the offences of voyeurism and indecent exposure are almost exclusively male. There's a reason we have single sex spaces. And if you are a special kind of 'woman' with xy chromosomes then just use the blokes loo because you don't belong in the ladies.

I wonder what proportion of public toilets have been closed due to men’s bad behaviour (cutting holes in cubicles, drug use, sexual activity, vandalism etc) vs women’s?

One of the many reasons I don't attend the Edinburgh fringe anymore nor the book festival. The book festival in particular is extremely pro gender woo and more so now Nicola's pal is in charge. It's a disgrace.

There speaks a man…or is it just someone who doesn’t mind sitting in men’s p@&s or cleaning it off the seat, while checking for cameras?

I want to requote your excellent comment. Will use this in real life, thank you. And I hope @cofffeeee reads it and realises why single sex toilets and changing areas are necessary.

The good old urinary leash.

Idiots.
if they were really happy with gender diversity then the men’s loos would make it clear ‘gender diverse’ males were welcome in them.

There’s a section of Hansard where an MP was arguing that it was discriminatory towards men to make sex in public toilets illegal, which made me laugh as there was a lot of subtext going on from everyone. He made a speech and spoke a lot about the history of toilet arrests - he found no records of 2 women ever being prosecuted for having sex in a toilet.

I found an article where one set of toilets was closed recently because the cleaners had had enough (often the case) but the last straw was the amount of carrots they had to clean up!?

In the past 400 men were arrested during one month in one set of toilets in London (ironically the police hid in the attic and drilled holes in the ceiling to watch).

There is a long history of toilet misuse. A lot of sex, self harm, drug deaths, suicides, cardiac arrests, strokes, chokings, and vandalism.

There are so many small hidden cameras in toilets now. The widespread problem was in South Korea but The Guardian did an article on it here too.

This sums it up in Bath last week: "The issues we face are not just about funding. I cannot overstate the significance of vandalism and anti-social behaviour. "Our existing facilities are subject to significant vandalism and in some cases within a matter of hours of being repaired they are shut again."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg92nl5w25o.amp

edit to say: you have to be broad minded, have a dark sense of humour and also be prepared to read some unpleasant stuff when researching toilet design. Definitely not a job for a pearl-clutcher.

I went to an event on Saturday where they had about double the number of women's loos to men's loos. They were all single cubicle portaloos, and I don't know if the men's had urinals, as I didn't use the men's. So it's different from in a cafe. But I was impressed by there not needing to be a giant queue for the loo.

You just sexually assaulted women in the carriage - she can't get off. Happens to 1 in 3 women. It's exactly the same issue as women's toilets - one way in and out....

Was it a flower show? I went to the RHS Tatton one a few years ago (maybe 2019), I think the ratio was nearer 3:1 and that seemed about right, balancing both the higher proportion of women than men at this event as well as the usual time needed factor.

Not a flower show, but an outdoor event.

Trains and planes have very small single cubicle toilets. Other toilets are separated because of the space inside that allows for other people to be there too. See?

And, especially with planes, the chances of a perpetrator escaping are lower

I like this idea. Keep the receipts.

The EHRC guidance needs to have a super simple flow chart in the exec summary to that makes the provision of toilets legally compliant and idiot proof.

The Mile High Club often means having sex in the small, private, mixed sex, usually smelly, toilet with a bit of wee on the floor.

Does it really matter if the people before you are having sex in the few toilets available, if they are having exciting fun to join a special club?? You can’t take sex out of toilets. People don’t care (or even get a kick) out of having sex in a public space.

Door gaps go some way to prevent it though, back on earth. Which I think is needed (not sorry funseekers) because of the abuse that happens in toilets.

@Keeptoiletssafe I just want to say thank you for your work on toilets and the way in which you patiently explain that work. You have educated me on numerous threads I’ve lurked on and it’s clear that you know your stuff about a subject lots of people wouldn’t like or bother to think about, but which is really really important.

What a great attitude, maybe you can teach it to men, rather than expecting women to turn a blind eye to discrimination? These guys should just use the mens and get on with their day, right?

Ah thank you. I just hope people who are the decision-makers start to get why designs are like they are. I am most worried the EHRC are soon going to make decisions that go above the HSE and building regs.

People in high places seem to put a greater emphasis on complete privacy as they don’t see, or don’t want to know, the bigger picture. To be fair it’s difficult because no one has collated the huge amount of data out there to show what’s happening in reality.

@cofffeeee

Engage your brain please.

It's like all the fuss they make about sanitary towels and tampons. They don't make the same fuss about men's products or medical screening or procedures for things like prostate health. Hhmm, I wonder why it isn't the trans men moaning but the trans women 🤔