NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

@tribunalObserver do you think a woman wanting to make trouble is more likely to look up the menopause policy than a woman suffering perimenopausal flooding?

Fife NHS sounds utterly toxic

Apparently so. I wonder what possessed her.

I think the NMC is going to have a field day with the amount of people who have now publicly outed themselves as not really upholding the standards over the past couple of days.
But that's totally irrelevant to whether SP should have access to SSS.

For now...

Back in September.

Poor @nauticant

How would your dad have felt if he knew in her break she was sending 'Ps go home' memes, I wonder.

Racists aren't always able to hide their racism all the time.

Long time lurker. I’m in my thirties, a humanities graduate, have volunteered in EDI initiatives (although focused on disability rather than LGBT+). I have no one in my family or social group that I can speak to about my GC views, they would be horrified. I would guess I’m not alone in feeling silenced. That’s what makes those like Naomi and Helen and Maya so important - they’re highly intelligent people whose views on matters aside from trans rights seem pretty uncontroversial. I think it is easier though for someone like Sandie who already has views that are honestly quite unlikeable to speak out. I think you’re either very brave, like Naomi, Helen and Maya, but probably in higher numbers are those used to being outspoken, like Sandie. Which probably doesn’t help overall with the view of the GC cause, unfortunately. It’s a shame the case has gone this way. Of course Sandie’s right to a same sex space should still hold though.

Ughhhhhhhhhhh!

Has she learnt? Or does she regret it because it's been found out?

It isn't...but in America it is seen as being so. Here we still use the terms the 'Occident' and the 'Orient', and SOAS exists ( School of Oriental and African Studies)

Are we done now?

[Subs likely to be long - therefore questions about court admin help with printing - but no need to hand in in person.
J Thank you to everyone who gave evidence in Feb and now, and to both of you - to all the advocates and legal teams involved.
We will consider the submissions when they come in. Thank you. J leaves. Ends.

and....breeeeeathe!

Why are they not coming back to it until September? Is there more info they need before they make a decision?

Yes!

well as he was comatose with a midline shift… doubt he was thinking very much pal

Phew.

Any bets on how many threads this whole case will fill up?

(A lot!).

I agree the jokes are awful, racist and unacceptable.

However, I think it shows that Sandie Peggie is flawed and human. Obviously, @nomas you are perfect and squeaky clean in all you’ve said, done and written in your entire life… so maybe you could have a little compassion for those, who like most mere mortals are flawed. Being so perfect, I’m sure you have lots of compassion.

I wince at some things I’ve said in the past - obviously you’ve never experienced this.

Amen.

She still sometimes uses the term and uses another racist slur:

Another joke refers to Pakistan looking like a "giant bowl of coco pops" after the flood.

Is it offensive?

Ms Peggie agreed that it was.

Ms Peggie reiterates that she was brought up to use the term "P*" and said there was sometimes a "slip of the tongue".

Ms Russell asks whether she also refers to Chinese people as "Ch*".

She said yes. But it was no derogatory towards a person. It is to go to a restaurant and eat their food.

They are the first dates that everyone is available. It was looking like it was going to be October, so early September is a win.

Well at least they finished before 4 like they wanted to. 🤦‍♀️

So, no more witnesses, just behind the scenes reading and assessing from the panel? What’s happening in September then?

Sorry, I’m unfamiliar with the process.

Yes.

How do you know what memes anyone you have dealings with is sending in private chats? You don’t, and arguably it’s none of your business.

Agree and would say it is actually racist to band all together. It's like saying the whites and all the others.