NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

What I'm taking from this is that NHS Fife should perhaps park the genderwoo for a moment and give all the staff, all of them, a bit of training on the rest of the PCs.

They are discussing submissions currently

Thank you for agreeing it's upsetting. I've not said a word about immigration. But Sandie Peggie sharing jokes about 'P' go home' is not about protesting illegal immigration, it's racist.

No questions from us. NC?
NC No
J That was your chance to follow up on your objection q
NC Nothing further
J Thank you SP. You may go. Concludes C case
J We would like written submissions, partial or skeleton, with at least a list of authorities by noon tomorrow and parties can

Was NC wise to recall Sandie given that obviously meant she would also face JR in x-exam?

It seems a bit of an own goal.

Can't believe she's pulling the 'born in the wrong body' line! I thought that was supposedly really problematic - Stonewall et al have distanced themselves from it?!

provide supplementary by 25 August. Appreciate more time requested but we are trying to balance all commitments to avoid further delay. If oral subs desired, we've identified some dates in Sept - 1, 2 or 29th. JR Can do 1 or 2 if NC can. Early Sept would be good.
NC Yes, can do

The taxpayer is funding Fife (despite the fact that the majority of taxpayers don’t want TWs in women’s loos and changing rooms). Fife seems offended that SP should also have funding to claim her rights.

Have a look at her CV - linked here essexcourt.com/barrister/jane-russell/. I don't think she has any cause for concern.

I am Pakistani. I live in Fife. My local A&E is the vic. When my dad was rushed into the vic with a catastrophic brain bleed - SP was one of the nurses caring for him until a bed was available in palliative care. She did not in any way, shape or form, treat my dad, my mum, my sister or me in a way that made us think she was racist. She was kind and compassionate to all of us

i realise I’m about 26 pages behind with this reply and have come out of hiding to post this. Also SP could be being funded by her house insurance, just saying. A friend of mine took her old employers to tribunal and her house insurance covered ALL legal costs.

Do you have reading comprehension issues.?.
My response is to the implication that someones views affect the care they provide.

You need to learn to read properly if you think I'm comparing Pakistanis to rapists.

I thought there was another 2 witness's from JR? or was that a fevered dream.

I'm ex NHS and I used to deal with quite a few prisoners, I was never anything less than professional .

And it's finished

Not based on JR's previous performances.

Sandie couldn't have come across any worse than either Fife's recent witnesses did, or worse than they portrayed her as.

Didn't DU go around after the end of his shift saying happy Christmas to people, for 30 mins approx? So how would SP have known when he would be in the changing rooms, if she was deliberately trying to ambush him? Unless she was hanging around the changing rooms for 30 mins plus, waiting for him to arrive, which seems unlikely.

to put a counter claim to 'no other complaints' onto the record, & to be taken alongside the SM phone call evidence on climate of fear.

J Fix or reserve
JR/NC fix.
NC Two days
JR Two days is safer
J Fixed 1 and 2 Sept for oral subs and any qs we have. Will put in writing beforehand. How this done NC/JR in person please
J 10am start.
J No need to be here - can email subs. [They discuss logistics of printing etc

I hope she gets a stonking payout. Not because she'll need it (which she will, cos she'll struggle to find employment after this unless Reform is looking for a new office manager) but in order to send a message to NHS Fife and like-minded organisations up and down the country.

‘That these people are in the NHS is terrifying’

What sort of people do you want in the NHS, do they have to pass some sort of purity test?
Medical professionals are just people who are trained to work in medicine, they’re not saints or angels, they’re human, and some of them aren’t very nice. You will have unknowingly encountered people that have done and said terrible things, in all walks of life, teachers, doctors, nurses, policemen, lawyers, shop assistants.
The common denominator is that they are all people, they’re fallible, we all are, and sometimes people are revolting and cruel and unkind. The difference here is that normally we don’t get access to those people’s private messages or get to see what they get up to in private.

None of this makes any difference to SP’s rights to SSS. Everyone is entitled to fair treatment and justice. You don’t have to like them in order to accept that.

Will we need to reapply for a remote link do you think?

Thank you for sharing this. Sorry about your dad.

Didn't LN voluntarily offer up the chat, she wasn't forced to? If she hadn't done so, no-one would be any the wiser about all this.

Personally I object to the term BAME - it's casually lumping a lot of very diverse people into one group, eg BAME workplace groups. I work with a lot of Phillipinos and they object to the term and being included in such a broad group. They wouldn't dream of joining the workplace group. A bit like many people object to what used to be LGB having added many letters to the acronym and consequently including many people under the umbrella who have very different interests and needs, some in direct opposition to others included under the umbrella.