NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

She’s 50.

Who's funding your case? - objection privileged..

SP no
JR Vindictive campaign against DU cos she's a t person
SP no
JR to doc - thanking someone for providing information cos will help your case, building case
SP no, info would be helpful.
JR you refer to your MP who has talked you into this. Putting you up to it

I think Brexit would tell you that at least 51% of the population think immigration, legal and illegal are too high.

JR withdraws Q After words from the judge

That's at least twice she's asked that. None of her business, surely.

JR trying to get her to out JKR?

Judge says not here in Scotland thankyou!

Not really. Isn't it standard practice nowadays to address women as Ms unless you actually know they prefer Mrs or Miss? Unless they're Dr, Prof etc, obviously.

JR But supporting you
SP Y
JR Who is funding your case?
NC objection. No relevance and privileged.
J/JR/NC discuss
JR People making noise behind me
J Please quiet or be removed [JR/J talk re confidentiality between client and solicitor. Q is withdrawn

A lot of Irish people were on the receiving end of racist jokes in England and it left us more aware of how unacceptable it was - made easier for us by very low levels of immigration until about 20 years ago. Hence I suspect Marie's family (and mine) steering clear of racist 'humour' - it wasn't generally used. otoh, there was some very nasty stuff about Travellers.

ps, no nasty stuff in my family, and I never saw it in an email chain, but there'd be the odd overheard comment.

I think she’s talking about past use not current use. She is responding to questions about past bevahiour. No one has asked her if it is a term she would still use.

She wasn’t meant to talk about the case once the investigation kicked off was she? That would hamper asking if others felt similarly.

Loathe that term (s-) and it always grates when it seems to still or at least relatively recently still be acceptable in US shows/films.

Yes of course. I just meant the wider public. Those who aren't really following the SSS debate

I agree that racists need female only spaces too.

But there's a lot of people on here defending Peggie saying she used the P word when she was younger.

But she's an adult and still sending racist memes.

Why is JR so desperate to know who is funding the case, I wonder? If our general assumption is correct, it doesn't appear that it could do her case any good. Is she hoping the money is coming through Sex Matters perhaps and hoping to use that to smear NC? Or does she think (or know) that it comes from other source, one she could categorise as transphobic or right wing or something? Judge slapped her down with "it's different in Scotland" when she tried to argue with him, anyway.

JR probably thinks it is.

JR [to doc] Person says [Beth] sought you out from start cos you are uncomfortable
SP Yes
JR Opposite is true. You sought DU out from start
SP No
JR [to doc text LN/Gina] Gina taken self out of Benidorm chat, unhappy, duped by someone who behaves like that. Fucking relentless

SP has fallen for the standard Reform line that asylum seekers are illegal immigrants. Oh dear.

Aren’t most people against illegal immigration? I have friends from South Asia who are struggling with current visa requirements to extend their leave to remain in the UK. They have come legally to the UK but may not be able to stay which will be heartbreaking as they have made a lot of friends.

She's still saying it. See below:

Mosque
SP No, wouldn't do it.
JR To Pakistan flood jokes. All offensive
SP Yes
JR Reads one joke. Particularly offensive - Pakis go home
SP There's too much illegal immigration. My reasons are neither government or people living in Britain don't know everyone arriving in

It's none of JR's business who is finding the case, surely?

At least it's not the tax payer 🙄

n her nastiness. Talking c you
SP Yes
JR You were doing that
SP no
JR [read] Beth doesn't deserve hate campaign by Sandie and other staff as well. You were waging hate campaign v DU
SP No
JR Did you tell your counsel to compare DU to torturer in 1984

This is excruciating. I honestly don't believe that the court should have access to private WhatsApp chats.

Not sure there are that many people who are in favour or illegal immigration. The clue's in the word"illegal". What is more contentious is whether people are in support of allowing those escaping persecution to claim asylum.