NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

JR just read out a message and seems to have inadvertently told everyone there were others as well as Sandie who weren't happy about Beth?

Is JR actually going somewhere with this? She just keep basically repeating 'this is a bad thing to say'.

There was some chat about Adult Baby Diaper Wearers (or whatever they're called) on Michael Foran's live Substack last night as I think they'd featured in a chat group Sandie was a member of. There seemed to be an expectation from some quarters that this fetish and its practitioners should be respected.

Indeed, how did we ever get here?

It's all she's got and is going to keep going until she runs down the clock

I think it's part of the generic smear campaign.
The press will play up to it.
My overall ( probably biased ) impression from this tribunal is that SP did get mistreated. Witnesses for NHSF have come across as evasive. Process didn't exist, let alone get followed. I think SP stands a good chance of a win here despite the racist jokes.
What's left for the opposition is to smear, and muddy the waters.

J Intervenes.
JR You struggled with family member who was gay
SP I was upset
JR and talked LN c this. You weren't tolerant of gay people before your family member
SP No I was upset because ridiculed by people.
JR Worried c other people's prejudice
SP Yes

Indeed! It is great living in Scotland and paying more tax compared to the rest of the UK to fund this absolute fucking nonsense from NHS Fife. I really feel I am due a rebate...!

@langtounescapee I still twitch when hearing it used medically.

However DM knew it as the Spastic Society for longer than it’s been called SCOPE. She was trying to give directions to a place, and the fundraising figures had been prominent landmarks at the time. Long before DN was born, of course, but that’s the quality of DM’s directions for you.

Truly painful.

That these people are in the NHS is terrifying.

I can't imagine her views not impacting the quality of case she gives to Pakistani people.

What a cheek!
Who is funding you?
Who is funding you JR? Us - the great unwashed and I’m not overly happy that all this expense has been created by the incompetence of your client!?
Read the room…

I agree. It seems close to thought policing.

Who wants to live in a world where we have to self-censor our private and most intimate conversations?

JR You became less upset as time went on. Because your love was more important
SP Y
JR Gay people okay because expressing their selves
SP yes
JR Being gay is a feeling
SP Y
JR People may know c it from a young age
SP y

Jr mobilising SP's daughter again, despite both her and her partner saying they have a good relationship. Low.

My uncle had cerebral palsy. The whole family referred to him as "Spastic" because that was the term in use up until the 90's. He went to the "spastic club" one day a week, we used to buy "spastic society" christmas cards and support their charity shops. It was never a derogatory term when used by people with CP and their families up to that point.

Other people using it as a derogatory term are what caused it to be seen as one.

Oh fuck off JR

Anyone recognise these kinds people - saying they've 'stayed out of it' and 'kept away from it' but now need to comment on Sandy Peggie's racism. The misogyny wasn't enough to move them to comment, the sexism, the bullying, the harassment, the restriction of rights, the denial of rights. But now they really need to comment.

For context when I was at uni 45 years we all, certainly absolutely loads of us would call corner shops p shops. This is shops that were open all night selling more or less everything. That was the criteria. I thought it was a term like Offy, or newsagents. I never thought what the word even stood for. Tbf many of the owners were definitely not Pakistani. They were white English.
Eventually someone said it was offensive and we shouldn't say it and explained what it meant. I had absolutely no idea. But I did weed it out of my vocabulary 40 years ago and obviously SP should have done the same.

Like half the population, tbf.

JR You don't say t people pretending to get into the ladies
SP Some may pretend in some cases
JR What if you are wrong. T person not pretending but being natural selves
SP T person still a man and shouldn't be in F CR
JR If someone feels born into wrong body. Natural

I suffer from muscle spasticity and got told off by a friend’s sister for saying so a few years ago. 😂

I'm not watching, just catching up on here and on Scotsman blog. Although Sandie is saying stuff that will make people feel uncomfortable, it sounds as if she is being truthful. She seems a lot less evasive that some of the NHS Fife witnesses.

Where does she say she is still
using it in that quote?

It’s pushing at boundaries, once the good doctor has got access to the changing room in his bra then what’s to stop him stripping off entirely next, or treating a patient who’s requested a female doctor. That some people can’t see what is happening is quite scary.

SP Y. but still men re CR
JR Don't they deserve love as well You would love a child who came out as t
SP Y
JR FW said you tended to get changed in a locked cubicle. And LN said that too. Both wrong about that?
SP yes
LN Said thought you were making up the Xmas eve

SP was running a rubbish hate campaign then. One incident of a conversation in the changing room that got her suspended. Even if she wins this case any repercussions for Upton are likely to be from things he did and said, are likely to be minor or, probably, won't happen at all.