NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

why is it an issue if SP wants to send ILLEGAL immigrants back? so does the PM and most of the MPs in parliament .... to suggest this is racist is bonkers.

Because she knows how to actually pronounce Mayas surname.

Thanks, I understand that. But there are bad faith actors on this thread implying the P word is fine because it was in East is East.

And it sounds like Sandie Peggie is still saying the P word now. From above:

R LN says you often say things like this. eg P**i (Edited by MNHQ)
SP It's how I was brought up and sometimes say Pak

Sandra's in the pub wi me just now. Is she meant to be in court?!

NC [intervenes - what are these views]
J Need to object before q answered. Carry on.
JR Reported you asked for pic of weirdo Beth. Insulting. Derogatory?
SP Yes
JR It means not normal but us. But weird.
SP Y
JR Calling DU weirdo chimes with what LN heard you say at lunch

It was very obvious, every one else pronounced Maya's surname accurately. There was speculation on here that it was what JR called her in private.

Wtf does all this have to do with a man being in the women’s cr and a woman having the right (or not) to ask him to leave?

It will be over by christmas!

Which will hopefully make some of the people on this thread realise that while you may never have used the word P* and consider it offensive there will absolutely be words you are using now that in 20 years time will be considered offensive.

I am not overly sure how things work with barristers, KCs and the like but is JR only planning on participating in these kinds of cases from now on? Because she doesn't come across as skilled (or even competent) to me (and I understand she has to defend some amount of batshittery) and if she was put up to represent me in a court case I would honestly ask for anyone else after this.

JR You said it at the lunch.
SP DOn't think so. J
R And FW said
SP Didn't say
JR Are you sure.
SP Only thing discussing at lunch was c CR.
JR You think DU is a weirdo
SP No. Looks strange cos obviously a men who wants to be in women's clothing

I'm older than SP, and am well aware there was a time that that sort of expression was rife. However, I learnt long ago that it is no longer acceptable and wouldn't dream of using it. It would be really quite ageist to try to excuse this on the basis of age.

I said 'Please don't kid yourselves that Pakistanis were ever happy with being called 'P' by white people or anyone else.'

For some reason you felt you had to challenge this with a reference to a nearly 30 years old show.

It's offensive now to say that men can't be women, women don't have penises and men shouldn't be in women's changing rooms. I don't care what the TRAs say, I know they didn't foresee that.

Yeah, it was on purpose all right

@OatcakeCravings JR is skilled, just has a condescending manner.

Look at what she has to defend, it's no surprise she loses most of the cases.

JR Aren't strange and weirdo the same?
SP Weirdo not derogatory
JR [to messages in Jan 2024] You say the trans have all the rights. Only way i can get round this is to say not made aware of protocols before starting. Are you thinking of way of bringing against DU
SP N

Like “trans woman”?

From what I recall of the messages read out yesterday, was it not Gina who referred to Dr Upton as 'weirdo' when reporting that Sandie had asked for the photo?

I used to use it back in the 80s, only for shops. An American friend called me out on it, and said it was racist, and why didn't I just say "shop". I said that they weren't the same as other shops due to being open on Sundays and in the evening, back when shops in England were all closed on Sundays and most evenings. But I got her point and that was the last time I said it.

It isn’t just age, it’s region. I was shocked to hear it in such wide usage in an area I moved to.

I don’t think anyone has said they would use it, or that it’s ok. They have just said it’s still widely used without malicious intent.

No malicious intent doesn’t mean it’s ok- of course not! It just means no malicious intent!

They have no actual arguments in favour of their case, so they want to slur the opposition.

Honestly? No.

It was just a descriptor. I never thought whether Australian people cared about being called Aussie's either.

The problem was that we lived in a very white area. The only Pakistani people we knew were the ones running the shops, and they weren't saying they disliked the term (probably because their businesses depended on the people using the word).

Once we actually found out it was considered racist, people generally stopped using it.

The world is a lot different now to the way it was in the early 90s and before. The internet exists now, and pretty much everyone uses it. If I use a term that is considered racist, then I'm going to find out pretty damn quickly. But back in the 90s, that wasn't the case. People said racist things, not because they were actively racist, but because they had no idea that they were racist.

SP is possibly racist? does that mean that neither she nor her colleagues are allowed to raise so much as an eyebrow when denied a single sex changing space?

Here we go, JR saying not wanting a man in the female CR is the same as being a racist. That old TRA argument.