NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

Is JRs line of questioning actually landing anything?

Exactly. 🤷‍♀️

My Pakistani heritage BIL has a family group chat called the 'P's at 113. I believe it's tongue in cheek. Who am I to judge and tell them it's offensive.

By other people I clearly meant other non-Pakistanis, as you very well know.

I'm not upset, I'm disgusted.

I must say I haven't had a slip of the tongue like that.

There are episodes of Friends that are now considered unacceptable. It does move fast.

The "Would you put bacon into a mosque" line of questioning is giving me Chris Morris in The Day Today vibes.

I think it's trying to show SP as a bigot. TBF she's doing a fairly good job of that.

Is Sandie the last witness? Have they confirmed that Gina is a no show?

country illegally
JR So you stand by no 4 . Send them back
SP Illegal immigrants.
JR Someone growing up in Britain, told they're a P, might be very upset.
SP Wouldn't be my intention to offend people or to let anyone see it outside my group of very close friends.

👆

@nomas: some of us are just trying to draw a picture of the history of such terms. In my case, my father happily used P*ki, my sister and I wouldn't never have used it and still less our children. That's not justification of our father or anyone else using terms like that. I hope we have moved on.

Joking about the victims of the Pakistani floods is absolutely awful.

A pp said racists need safe spaces too and I agree, but the evidence shows she is also a nasty piece of work.

JR Reads another joke. Holding up to ridicule
SP Y J
R LN says you often say things like this. eg P**i (edited by MNHQ)
SP It's how I was brought up and sometimes say Paki
JR And Chinese people as Chinkies SP Chinatown. We have a lot of people, chinese restaurants, we got on very well

It wasn't going to be Gina Who Likes A Drink. It was Sandra someone.

Have they mentioned if she's cancelled? Can they compel her, or prob decided not enough time?

Agree, I am in my 50's, grew up in West Yorkshire and it was normal day to day speak even when I started my second job in Bradford. I only really recall it becoming unacceptable when DS was small, he's 31.

How do we know it was on purpose?

NC and judge having a snippy moment

Both my parents left school at 14. I remember being in primary school and telling another kid off for calling a boy the n word. My parents taught me it was wrong from an early age. This would be early 70s.

If it was without ill intent, how could it be racist?

At some point, this particular term became associated with racist views, and at that point decent peopke stopped using it so as to distance themselves from the NF and so as not to offend people of Pakistani origin.

I would argue the term in question became racist at some point, but wasn't before.

In North East Scotland referring to the P-shop and the C-takeaway was completely regular speech and Sandie will defo have been brought up with this - as will all the other locals. Common usage has reduced significantly over time as I’ve got older/more educated but maybe it’s still been around more than I was aware.

@nomas Not justifying - explaining its usage back in the 70s and 80s.

Do I condone SP et al's behaviour re this? Absolutely not - it's appalling that this is still seen as humour. However, as Jimmy Carr gets laughs at his 'joke' about 14 year olds giving him blowjobs I guess humour really is subjective.

Concern about illegal immigration is not an outlier viewpoint.

Sorry, I'm actually not inside your head, I have to take the words on the screen as what you meant. 🤷‍♀️ I'm not engaging with this derail anymore, plenty have explained what they meant to you. No one has said using that word is ok (as many have said to you).

SP Chinkie, not derogatory, someone who goes to restaurant and eat the food. JR people might be upset
SP Never heard that from my chinese neighbours
JR [ c people going back to their own country]
SP I've only ever said that about illegal immigrants.
SP I have no problem with people coming across to work.
JR [to doc] There's an image, Please look, and another. Posted by close family member c trans people. You said you don't share these views. Not true.
SP Don't share