NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

Probably and I can't blame her, but I wonder what life in her community will be like now?

Sorry I think we've missed a bit earlier (I've included the two either side of the missed bit for coherence):
SP Like to think all treated same. One colleague was called P**i and abused and I know she wasn't' and said why didn't you just say you were Indian and she said cos I am a Pack [missed]
NC c you asking for photos of DU? In what circs were you asking?
SP Circulating that Du had been on a night out and picture taken. Chat in department that he was wearing a dress and looked like a man in a dress. Was mentioned that it was weird. I messaged someone to ask about picture. It was just circulating at the time.
NC How many colleagues have you talked about DU using CR
SP Spoke to a number of colleagues and people were in agreement he shouldn't be. He continued using CR and I didn't want to cos of previous experiences.
NC Anyone spoke to who didn't agree?
SP LN, Fiona and Jackie James - they didn't agree. JJ said where do you expect her to get changed so presumed she didn't agree.
NC Any other colleagues who didn't agree
SP Not that I can recall

No idea if they've agreed to be named, further to my previous post.

A way to stick the boot in like a child being spitefully mean probably just feels like a bonus to JR / TRAs.

It may give JR a frisson of delight to goad by messing up names, but I assume the J and panel can hear her too. Do they approve? I hae me doots

Receptionists wear uniforms. Might want to get changed before going out

She's quite sad about naming them now.

And she does sound sad

Why is she naming them now?

I think the use of the P term may be quite community-specific. I'm also a bit older than Sandie and it wasn't used in the part of the country where I grew up, but in my early twenties I lived somewhere else where the term was used just as Sandie says, by everyone just like Aussie including by the people themselves, especially to refer to the P shop.

Did they keep their coats in the changing room?

Ah, ok, I hadn't thought of that.

A Lot of Scotland has a very small % of black and ethnic minority communities. I think even now it’s less than 3% as total population in Fife.

Not excusing anything - pointing out the numbers

SP [and another - a consultant] Danielle who's a nurse. Names another staff nurse. [not sure of names so won't type]
NC You didn't name those people when gave evidence in Feb. Why not
SP Since this happened - mistreated. Didn't anyone else put to detriment. Very toxic

I didn’t think she did try and defend them? She said they were distasteful.

She is being given the chance to say she doesn’t mean to be derogatory when using certain descriptors that she grew up thinking normal use.

it’s not defending but giving context. If she didn’t know now her sharing those posts was undeniably racist behaviour she will now!

Defending the fact she's not the only one?

Poor Sandie looking quite upset. 😞

Depends whether she asked them or they volunteered the information. I imagine they would all be talking about it.

I'm horrified now, but p@ki was a term that I heard often in the 80s - the p@ki shop was how people referred to it, in the same way the Chinese takeaway was the ch*nky.

Judge having a bundle mishap

Would the "bacon through mosque letterbox" paramedic have had to agree to have that comment attributed to him?

Seems extraordinary to mention him by name if not.

SP Didn't want to...
NC How do you feel naming them now
SP Sad
NC Why SP Because some are v close colleagues. Deeply upset. At least one of them, cos she was still working in dept. [long pause]
NC [to p 1747] Your msg - been suspended I'm raging. How did colleagues on chat

It really depends on the area you grew up in.

I don't know what age Sandie is, but I'm mid 40s and it was definitely normal language when I was young (northern Scotland).

I wonder whether NHS Fife is regretting their decision re the changing room issue now. It has turned into scorched earth fir the ED dept and staff.

Same here. I must be of an age with SP and those terms were commonplace. I lived in Cardiff’s commuter belt, one of the most multicultural cities, and still it was rife.

Stop it, you know what will happen.

Did she go to them and ask?