NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

Hopefully when this is over there will be some sort of enquiry into NHSF carried out by an external body - it would be super if it were given some executive powers rather than just dragging on and then producing recommendations that are ignored.

@DeanElderberry I hear your bee story and raise you my wasp story!

Christmas time, I bought some Christmas toilet roll from M&S. Went to the loo for a wee (fortunately just a wee), and when wiping after said wee, felt something hard and painful in the paper. Felt like a piece of glass. Dropped the paper, sharpish, only to see a wasp in it. Which had stung me in a very tender part of my anatomy.

@NebulousSupportPostcard psychiatry liaison presumably would include dealing with very distressed people who had presented in Emergency department due to self harm, and liaising with psychiatric units? Just trying to imagine being a patient in some of these scenarios.

School day is a long one today. I don't understand the science but if you say the last sentence in a certain way you could almost be reading T S Eliot.

One-upping you, and self-iding as Sad, Sad Times but slightly worried that it makes me sound a little Trumpian.

I've been reading this discussion, and I can't stay silent any longer. If, as you say, SP "kept going", so did DU. And he knew that SP was (a) uncomfortable (and with reason, as she had explained), and (b) stressed, and (c) in the middle of her shift, with duties to perform for the next several hours. Whereas he had finished his shift and was free to depart, and take some time to calm down.

I sold an oven through Gumtree and Tiffany wanted to buy it. DH was at work. When Tiffany turned up, they were huge, with very strong looking arms and legs, but wearing lots of pink and heels. They explained that they were late because they had just moved house and couldn't find their makeup, isn't that just awful? (I very rarely wear makeup) and they couldn't find a mirror to style their hair (I never do. It gets washed, brushed, and left to dry) and I must know how difficult that was.

They liked the look of the oven and said they would purchase it but then said 'ooh how are we going to lift it into the car?' I looked at them and said 'Hmm, tricky, but DH and I managed to carry it between us, so we should be ok, I think?' It was just ridiculous because they were clearly strong enough to take the lion share of the lifting.

Ha I'm sure if she'd told him about the flooding he would have said it was exclusionary and 'transphobic '...

Yes, I said that too. She couldn't win.

My DW did a work assertiveness course ( having been told she needed it), applied what she was taught, and was accused of bullying.

Semi related, Mhari Black Deputy Leader of SNP has just resigned over the parties trans rights stance.
But the BBC didn't elaborate did she support TWAW or they are men ?

I thought Mhari Black was a gender-loon.

Forgive me if this has already been posted but a bit of a misleading article by the bbc

The way they've ended that article is disingenuously ambiguous to those not following the case surely

They'd pretzel themselves to support Upton over Sandie. Still crickets from the guardian as far as I can see, it might as well not be happening.

Right thanks for that! Another complaint to the BBC written this weekend then...

JFC I cannot deal with them anymore. They give me the rage. Them and the guardian. I just can't get over the betrayal.

Also picking the most soft focus looking photo of Upton. He just looks like a normal big hulk of a bloke irl. The way he moves, the height, shoulders, receding hair, skull, the lot. Just so so obvious. I'm tall and I'd have been intimidated by him in the changing room alone, if I was forced to undress. Never mind Sandie who is about 9 inches shorter than me.

Oops edited to say I thought Sandie was 5ft! Just realised she's actually taller than that so it's not 9 inches, more 4 or 5 less than me I'm 5ft9

I'm aggrieved at the misleading reporting from the BBC over their articles that they've produced about this tribunal and I've never written a complaint to them.

I was absolutely shattered but that article has shocked me wide awake that I've just been going through the last thread to make sure I didn't miss anything or get anything wrong. It feels like I've been gaslit and the exchange in court wasn't as I'd remembered.

For the first time ever I find myself sat with my laptop open writing a complaint to the BBC.

Bloody hell. Following some comments I decided to sign up to Michael Foran's substack, feeling resentful at having to pay 50 quid for a year's access. And then saw today's video was two hours long....

That was the most riveting 2 hours film I've ever watched, completely blowing out of the water any legal drama movies I've seen. Admittedly I am a bit of a geek, but my conclusion is:

Dr. Upton has been a duplicitous little weasel. Hopefully there will be some career ramifications for this, he has shown himself to be completely untrustworthy.

And I hope to god I never find myself being cross examined by Charlotte Elves! I think she has a bright future.

I think this case has become very sinister. It is apparent that this doctor lies and manipulates people, charms them and scares them and causes trouble for his targets wherever he goes. He uses other people in his games like pieces on a chess board.

he has in the final analysis of his phone doctored data and therefore submitted false evidence.

he is a dangerous sociopath.

It is interesting that this case which is so awful appears to be the first time such behaviour has been so publicly exposed and will really damage the TIM community who seek a low profile

if indeed that is actually true are they mostly like this, one wonders.

If either side wants a document in the bundle, it will go into the bundle unless the other side has very good reasons for excluding it. That doesn't mean both sides agree on the validity, interpretation or importance of the document.

She is.

It’s interesting that Upton has not been in court. His reputation is on the line.

I think he's sensible to keep away tbh. Answering questions in court now would definitely not help his case.

He doctored them because he had previously insisted, under oath, that his notes were contemporaneous. Exposing the fact that they were anything but contemporaneous would make them less persuasive as evidence and would expose the fact that he had lied under oath.

He's a very important woMan with a very important woMan job. I bet that's how he is justifying his absence. He can't possibly attend the rest of the hearing.

That or Sandie's presence is a microaggression to him.

It seems like the beeb is hellbent on protecting his reputation at the cost of the reputation of the witnesses.