Eliot Page; a positive example of masculinity?

[juoist]

I shared this news story in a group whatsapp and my year 8 daughter just told me that the same thing happened in her assembly recently.

I mean, this is batshit insanity and totally goes against what the Cass review states.

It’s out and out grooming. Clearly Page is an example of something other than positivity, whenever I see them being interviewed , they seem deeply depressed and miserable.

Are any of the boys in her school going to see Page as a man? Are any of the girls going to see it and wonder if their clothes choices and hairstyle mean they’re also a man? Why are schools still pumping out this unhealthy rhetoric for young teens? It’s insane.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14924669/Primary-school-trans-actor-Elliot-Page-lesson-masculinity.html

That suit is awful.

Wasn't there some famous sartorial type who said "brown suits look like shit"?

'She went from straight to bisexual to lesbian to trans. Always searching for an identity (which is weird for an actress)'

• to be fair, a lot of actresses and others who are now out have previously pretended to be straight. A figure coming out as bi as a launchpad to coming out as gay/lesbian wasn't unknown in Page's heyday. (Though some of Page's statements have made me wonder if she is bi)

Acting clearly gave Page an escape from her problems (as it has done for many actors) in some ways. Some actors with traumatic childhoods have found solace in pretending to be other roles. But it also gave her pressure as she became more famous. It seems like her life is a 24/7 performance now... Perhaps the best option would have been to have a more low profile career with less pressure to appear straight, dress in a traditionally feminine way etc

It's odd, we have to assume Page can afford a tailored suit. Maybe baggy to try to look bulkier than she is? Maybe she feels any closer fitting betrays her female body shape?

Page looks happier in press photos with her (ex) wife than now.
While looking for this I accidentally typed in Elaine Page so got very confusing results.

It is odd. I don't know if anyone else saw the film Tar, but Cate Blanchett plays a famous conductor who is also a lesbian, and she wears these fantastic tailored suits and looks stunning. But Blanchett is tall and slim, and I think you have to look a certain way to be able to carry it off.

That doesn't answer the question of why Page wears such baggy suits, though.

https://x.com/AjaTheEmpress/status/2074541236820509036

I’m going to see The Odyssey tomorrow. I’ll be interested to see how Page’s part plays out. Not read a review where she’s mentioned. I’m anticipating a cringe moment that people are glossing over for the rest of the film.

@juoist what does the live and let live thing entail?

@youreactinglikeafunmum People can be who they want to be, do what they want with their genitals, just doesn't bother me

But @youreactinglikeafunmum that IS the "terf" position, just that "and let live" includes not sacrificing the needs and wellbeing of female people for the benefit of male people. We're all totally cool with people doing what they want with their genitals, bodily autonomy is important. Just that nothing anyone does with their genitals (or other secondary sexual characteristics) actually magics a male into a female or vice versa.

From the interviews upthread, Page has a visceral fear of ageing

I could not picture myself as a woman aging. Obviously. It was just like, what is my future? There’s not a future. That’s kind of what it felt like. I would say, verbatim: I’ve never been a girl. I’ll never be a woman.
(https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a40011366/elliot-page-umbrella-academy-euphoria/)

And the dysmorphia manifested young

Since age 4, when in the bathroom at his YMCA preschool he tried to pee while standing up. At age 6, asking his mom if he could be a boy.
As a kid, he hid out in his room playing with Batman and Robin action figures and Barbies from Happy Meals whose hair he had chopped off. In the imaginary love letters he wrote to a fake girlfriend, signed, “Love, Jason.”
“That private play let me experience a gender euphoria, because I wasn’t being seen by anyone else,” he says. “I was just in my own world as the boy that I was. It was crystal clear to me.”

(https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-06-04/for-real-elliot-page-survival-pageboy-umbrella-academy)

The baggy suits (was a stylist involved? Are they a sadist) suggest an aversion to showing any body outline but then again there's pics in that of Page with her mastectomy scars and topless, plus if she's taken cross sex hormones she must have gone through menopause🤷

And the dysmorphia manifested young

I don’t think there can be certainty about this. There’s a lot of rose-tinted misremembering in my view.

“That private play let me experience a gender euphoria, because I wasn’t being seen by anyone else,” he says. “I was just in my own world as the boy that I was. It was crystal clear to me.”

This is an adult retrospectively viewing their normal childhood play through the restrictive gender prison she’s constructed for herself.

Maybe thems pregnant and hiding a pregnancy belly

I move more easily than that and I’m over 70 with a recent knee replacement.

Because that's what most men do.

Shami Chakraborty used to do that thing of absolutely drowning in the oversized suits she used to wear, and it did make you wonder if this was what Ed Miliband would have looked like on his first day at Big School

I think that it’s not going to be completely obvious that EP is female if you didn’t know. However, the longer scene has EP covered in mud and her voice is inbetween female and male, lower timbred but not a wholly male voice. She’s playing a young soldier in The Odyssey. Overall, I think there will be much fewer roles in which she’ll ’fit’ now she’s a trans identifying female.

Given the history of SA, the flight to maleness is not unsurprising. However, my sympathy was lost after the the first photo of the mastectomy scars were paraded. The shocking lack of insight that young confused teenage girls might want to emulate her angered me.

I saw the Odyssey today and Nolan has altered the character of Sinon and provided a back story that makes him naive and a victim of manipulation, very brave but vulnerable. Page does not look like a man - in armour and smeared with mud she looks like a boy rather than a woman but if Sinon had taken off her helmet and shaken out her hair revealing a woman in disguise it wouldn't have been unbelievable.
(The voice is very odd though.)
It's hard to watch it and think Nolan cast Page because he absolutely sees her as a man, no different from other men.
Just as with Misia Butler in Night and Day the casting doesn't really work out as wholly positive for the trans men actors.

I saw it yesterday too. Sinon is the only male character she could have played: someone who was taken on the trip to Troy as a young boy and is still relatively young looking at the end of the Trojan War. She doesn’t look like a man at all. The voice is really off-putting. It’s that classic female on testosterone voice.

Her whole role sits in a sex-based version of the uncanny valley. Thankfully she only had about 5 minutes of screen time total. I couldn’t watch a whole film like that, it’s so distracting.

An in similar vein, the whole Helen of Troy being a black woman was the same: probably fewer than 2 minutes total screen time.

I agree about Sinon, and I think it bears on the story as even if he;d been a teenager at the beginning of the war, by the end he would have completed puberty ( not to mention the aging effect of warfare)- having EP in that role made it look as if Odysseus had left a boy in a very dangerous position, - a very different decision to leaving a man in that situation

Page is petite and slim and would look fantastic in a tailored suit. But I think she’s worried she would look too womanly in tailoring.

Nolan cast Ellen Page in Inception and has a habit of using the same actors. He seems to have made some very deliberate casting choices. With Hollywood probably hoping that this film too big to fail due to casting choices unlike other films.