Compelled speech - Croydon pride

[Cheeseandtomato72]

Croydon pride will only accept applications from stall vendors who agree to state they believe:

trans women are women. Trans men are men and non binary identities are valid.

vendor applicants need to ‘join in a public display of support’ affirming these principles.

This is discrimination against anyone who does not accept biological males as women. Total disregard for the Supreme Court judgment.

The following companies sponsor Croydon pride. I’ve added their complaints email. You know what to do Mumsnet 😉

Unilever - https://www.unilever.co.uk/contact/

superdrug [email protected]

London Southbank University - no complaints email for non students but you can call this number to find out who to report activity to tel:+44 (0)20 7815 7500 +44 (0)20 7815 7500

That's funny because 'trans' has only existed for 10 years, and it was LGB that built the community, they then came along and squatted in it, and like cuckoo's they've now kicked everyone else out of the nest and are claiming sole ownership of it.

Adding Bobby to the list.

I am so utterly over the Progress Flag Stasi and their informers.

100% well said @TheywontletmehavethenameIwant .

and @Bobbymoore123 before you lump Lebsian and trans people together - same sex attracted lesbians like me are often rejected by the so called community because I will not agree to statements that infer we accept these biological males in our dating pools. LGBT is not some happy group, biological males who believe they are women are who refuse to accept ‘lesbians have penises’ have purged women from the community. So don’t you dare lecture mumsnetters sticking up for LGB that ‘LGBT have been around and always will be’. No one has an issue with trans people existing it’s when they are trying to eradicate other groups eg claiming same sex attraction is bigoted. Remember LGB are sexualities, TQ is identities.

thank you to Mumsnet for supporting LGB people - we will not forget who supported us while some TRAs claimed our sexual protestation no longer valid due to the feelings of some trans people.

100%.
unfortunately as a lesbian, our community was the canary in the coal mine. TIMs have been changing the social rules in our communities for years. Mums net was on this from day one. The rest of England finally waking up to the insane obsession TRAs have re censoring free speech. Stassi is an excellent description - monitoring and collecting info on GC people AND they way many TRAs captured key positions of power in organisations eg feminist networks, lesbian organisations.

I am SO embarrassed that gay people are associated with this nonsense when we have been destroyed by it too.

That's bizarre, because I definitely have photos of me at Croydon Pride from a few years ago.

In the context of Linzi Smith's ruling today, that's a mighty dangerous set of T&C for Croydon Pride if they want the Police (or arguably the NHS and other public bodies) to be part of their Pride events. It very squarely posititions them s having made a stand against gender critical people, which breaches the impartiality rules of all Police.

"trans inclusive" means exclusive of females. It means excluding females. The LGB has always been around. The T cult that colonised LGB has destroyed the goodwill LGB built up. Our lawsuits are aiming to restore womens sex-based rights that you and your Mens Rights ideology snuffed out. We had two wins already today. And us feminists will never stop fighting for our rights, we've only just started, so get used to it. Females EXIST. We have always existed, and we always will. And we will fight against hateful misogynistic Mens Rights ideologies for the next 100 years+ if we have to. We won't stop, until LGB rights and female rights are restored. Get used to losing. Feminists are kicking arse and taking names and winning. Your hateful Mens Rights ideology is losing.

Calm down. A complaint is not a threat.

Embarrassing for you that within a few minutes of boldly stating
'None of you have ever been to Croydon Pride'
somebody proves your very first words wrong!

Pride has shown itself to be more about the recently-added- on TQ+ than anything else - as demonstrated by Croydon Pride's auto da fé.
Hence LGB✂T ASAP!

Reminisces...I had the best street van burger ever at Pride on Surrey St. Dp and I still say no burger bought outdoors has ever matched up.

I suspect that poster has never been, and is just here for a good scolding.

Nah, it’s probably ‘literal violence’

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What about trans men though? They are part of the T but never mentioned. They might want to take part in LGBT events as trans people and it sounds like you want to exclude all T people

Who is excluding female people with transgender identities? Not feminists.

Their choices though don’t overwrite any needs of all female people. Including lesbians.

GC women (or TERFs) always include transmen because we welcome all women, however they identify, into our feminism and activism.
The TRA movement ignores transmen until they are useful to bolstering transwomen's causes. We see the misogyny.

Yes it's just the poster said trans inclusive is exclusive of females. But trans men probably want to be included as trans people. So it's kind of like Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Trans men if the T is going to be included. Sorry I'm not explaining myself very well, the post just seemed very anti trans which is unfortunately a bit unfair to trans men as they don't seem to play a part in all the aggressive and nasty tactics. Anyway not quite sure what I'm trying to say so I should probably shut up haha

I.e. calm, considered, rational , logical argument. Well, for all the people who live in the real world, at least.

It wasn't even about not including trans people of either persuasion, it was about only allowing stall holders who signed to say they believed that twaw, tmam to have a stall. That was my problem. LGB people who don't believe that should be welcome too. And everyone should behave and have a good time. Like they used to do.

@Bobbymoore123

Croydon pride is, and has always been, trans inclusive.

That’s a sleight of hand though, because that’s not what this is about.

This is about whether, in addition to including trans people, it also can/should/did exclude based on GC beliefs.

”Is the school fete inclusive of Muslims?”

”Yes, only those who recite the shahada can attend”.

Two very different things. Inclusion vs exclusion.

It would be helpful if Christinapple (or anyone else) gave employers a heads-up that in signing up for stalls at Croydon Pride they have signed up to some statements that are likely to stir up controversy. They go beyond the expression of general goodwill towards LGBT+ people that most of the public expect from Pride.

It might well be legal for a Pride event to set constraints on who they want support from and to oblige supporters to endorse even controversial views in public. But legal doesn't make it a good business strategy.

The problem is, do Unilever and Superdrug realise what they've signed up for in Croydon? It would be worth asking, do the stallholders represent the company as a whole that endorses these statements? They are huge organisations with high public profiles and not necessarily companies that want to court controversy. They are probably trying to increase goodwill towards their own companies and endorsing controversial views isn't always the best way to do that. So are Unilever and Superdrug agreeable to it, and do they think that all their employees and all their customers will take a positive view of these statements?

Oh look, they're a charity 😬

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/en/charity-search/-/charity-details/5096130/charity-overview

I don't know whether they would have any direct duty under the EA towards stall holders - whether they would count as beneficiaries or service users, but if not surely they fall foul of Section 111 - instructing, causing or inducing contraventions

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/111

That's the one Allison Bailey is using in her claim against Stonewall.

And every organisation that is running a stall at Croydon Pride has agreed on record that they will discriminate against people with gender critical beliefs.

It’s an old well rehearsed argument and contains some built in shortcuts. When feminists are accused of being trans exclusionary, the accusation refers to excluding transwomen from the category woman.
No one was ever asking us to be inclusive of transmen. Partly because that would require telling men off rather than women, and partly because they never have a shiny shit about transmen (women, innit?).
It’s been clear from the get go that this is a men’s rights issue. They want ours as well as their own.

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