Can we be "Sex realist" now? Not "Gender critical"?

[DiamondThrone]

I feel like we've been boxed into a corner. Being defined by "gender", when what we are actuall defined by is "sex", not womany feels.

That all seems very sensible to me. I am sure @POWNewcastleEastWallsend will be along to shout at you presently.

Meanwhile, I and today's most prominent KC on the subject are happy with the term "sex realist". It is now in court transcript.

Shall we have another?

NC It was to stop her expressing her G C /sex realist beliefs

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374921-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-29?reply=145756434&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

you don’t quite seem to have got the point - ‘sex realist’ and ‘gender critical’ are not the same thing. The first is absolutely necessary as a minimum base in reality but it is not sufficient.

Incidentally @DiamondThrone, Cunningham's Chambers don't list her as a silk.

My mistake, she is a barrister. Pretty good one, at that 😄

Nah, I'm good. The barrister prosecuting the currently highest profile GC case uses both 'GC' and 'sex realist'. Happy with that.

I’m happy she’s using both, in this case. But your premise for this thread, that we can be ‘sex realist’ but not ‘gender critical’ now - well, maybe that’s enough for you but it’s not enough for those of us who understand what the latter means.

Yes. Believe it or not, I also understand what the latter means.

But out there in the real world, I think that "sex realist" would cut through more. And is more accurate, now that they are claiming to literally change sex again.

Anyway, a good day for us sex realists 😀

And let's remember, that she is a very clever barrister, who is clearly introducing the term "sex realist" on purpose. The other side has never used it.

In the real world, most people are sex realists, like we’re oblate spheroid earth realists. In the court in this particular case, various people (in the NHS organisation!) like the DEI woman are claiming not to be so it’s relevant. But Peggie being GC is also relevant.

Loads of people on this thread disagreed with me. Shouted at me. Told me I was rehashing old argument and it was all new to me. (Which it wasn't.)

You told me in a sorts of ways how I was wrong to suggest using that term.

Well. Now we have the prosecuting barrister in the most high profile gender critical case in the UK using the term "sex realist". I rest my case, m'lud.

She didn't need to say it. Nobody else had. She has introduced it to proceedings on purpose.

Standing up for the safety of women. That is how I like to view it.

Gender critical feminists are a subset of sex realists. If you are gender critical, you first have to believe in the reality of sex.

Saying you are a sex realist rather than gender critical implies to me that you don't hold gender critical beliefs (these are defined in@POWNewcastleEastWallsend's post) . Is that the case, or are you also gender critical? In case that's still not clear, someone like Trump is a sex realist, but not gender critical.

You said earlier that you didn't fit into the Venn diagram posted by a PP. I'm not sure how that's possible so I asked you for your position on the 3 statements and their opposites which were included in the diagram, but you declined to answer. Would you be prepared to answer them now?

Do you think sex is nonphysical/changeable or that sex is physical/non-changeable? (I think I know your answer to this as you call yourself 'sex realist'.)

Do you accept or reject gender nonconformity?

Do you think gender is oppressive/constructed or that gender is edifying/innate?

Perhaps you are a sex realist but not gender critical (like Trump) and that's what your objection is to the term gender critical - that you just don't agree with it. That's your right, but you keep referring to 'we' as though you are gender critical.

You’re not wrong to use the term ‘sex realist’. You’re wrong to say we can use it as a replacement for ‘gender critical’.

Best tell that to Naomi Cunningham then, before tomorrow's hearing starts.

Naomi uses both. Both are acceptable.

The thing that people were telling you was not new, was the information you provided that TRA's claim to have actually changed sex.

FYI sex realist has been kicking around for a while too but GC is more well known and, as explained by a pp, is the belief that is protected in law. This is why Naomi uses both.

Surely "sane" covers it.

"I am sure @POWNewcastleEastWallsend will be along to shout at you presently."

Come off it, you are completely misrepresenting me now.

I have not raised a single objection to the term "sex realist".

I was, however, at the end of my tether with your rude, dismissive responses to women on a completely different matter, ie. your insistence that it is only since the SC judgement that anyone has been claiming that people can actually change sex, referring to themselves as "biologically female" when they are actually male.

As so many PP have pointed out, just because you have only just come across this by lurking on Reddit does not mean that this is a new thing. I have provided evidence in a previous post.

If you are prepared to lie and insult people in order to bolster your case it is obvious that even you know that it is weak.

Please do not misrepresent me again.