Trans girl winning every race at primary sports day

[Minibea]

My DD is 8 so in year 3 at primary school. There is a male child who self-identified as a girl from roughly age 6 and has socially transitioned at school. I’ve discussed this with DD along the lines of the importance of being inclusive, respecting someone right to be addressed in the way that they prefer etc but have also been clear with her that this child is biologically male and that you can’t change your sex. All fine.

Yesterday was school sports day. The child in question won every single race again the girls. DD is quite sporty and was up there with a chance of winning in all the races so is disappointed.

I don’t want to be “that” parent with school, nor rock the boat with the parents, but as the kids get older I’m concerned about the message this is sending and also the implications for bathroom arrangements, residential trips etc etc. So I want to ask school to provide/confirm their policy around all of this but what exactly do I need to see/hear? And what “should” the policy be so I can sense check it against what’s actually happening? An idiots guide would be most welcome!

Your posts are really strange.

you have presented this as if the fact that you don’t offer fairness to females is some kind of gotcha?

’we’ve always done something pretty shit, and I’m fairly sure other people do this same pretty shit thing, so what’s your problem.’

you have been presented in this thread with the actual facts, which are that from the age of 6, with a like for like boy and girl, the boy has an advantage.

what would be the ‘kind’ thing to do, would be for you to take these studies and facts to your next staff meeting and say ‘hey guys, we haven’t been fair on girls, studies show boys have an advantage over girls physically from 6yo, shall we seek to right this for girls.’

No I’ve not. I’ve said several times. My experience.

There was a point I thought I’m going to check this out on sports day. Then the shouty, rude people showed up and I decided I didn’t want that chat on here. Why would I??

What if the girls aren't having a good time? Do they not count?

Yes. Women are often told that unless they speak in just the right way, their voices are to be ignored. It doesn’t matter what is said, because it didn’t reach the personal standard set by someone, it is to be ignored and those failing the standard should be derided until they meet the set standard.

We understand.

You don’t have to chat on here at all. But what you should do, is be kind to girls.

Most random reply I’ve ever had.

Teacher here. I think by year 6 it would be unusual for primary school races to be mixed, and such a race would look pretty unfair 90% of the time. So if you don’t raise it now OP you’re just kicking the can down the road.

There is a boy in my daughter’s school who wears dresses, braided hair and knee socks and for the most part can’t be told apart from the girls. He knows he’s a boy, he ran in the boys race and everyone knew where everyone stood. That’s where we should be IMO.

If you think that response is random you’re not reading the room. Or, indeed, the thread it would seem.

You’re right! I meant ironic. Thankyou.

Please keep handwaving. It is still bloody hot in London and any air movement is appreciated.

😂

Talkwhilstyouwalk

I can see how it is unfair on the girls but it's just a junior school sports day.

Yeah young girls feelings don’t matter 🙄 but that one boy the same age pretending reality isn’t true matters so much everything will be changed to accommodate him

FFS can’t you see how awful that attitude is?

So bad. Honestly why is it always girls that have to roll over. From a young age too.

Its a no.

I’ve yet to see a mixed race at primary school be an issue. Sorry. If it was we’d have boys and girls only races. We don’t. I will bet we are not the only school in the country to do this either.

I was a fast girl but I never won any races in the mixed sex races at primary school and I thought I just wasn’t good enough so dropped athletics. It would be really interesting to see a proper study looking at how many female athletes at county level (doesn’t need to be elite sports) had mixed sex races at primary school and how many were divided by sex. It would give an idea how many girls might be dropping out too early because they are setting themselves against a male standard.

I think there are some people in the world who really do want to train children to be of service to others in all they do. Some people seem to think that at all times children should be taught to put other’s needs and wants before their’s.

I caught myself doing this with my tween. I found myself telling them that the person bullying them might be having a very difficult time because I knew their family situation. Then I realised what I was doing and stopped then and there and told my child that actually, they should definitely say something. That this wasn’t right at all.

We need to stop teaching or modelling to children to undervalue themselves. To do that, we have to show girls that we value them. Not as service humans, but as girls who have the right to expect to be treated with respect. Full respect. Not just half measures because some people view kindness as only given by girls and not to girls.

The thought processes around devaluing one sex are interesting…

aside from the fact that equality, fairness, honesty etc would show clearly that parity of the sexes is logical and should be natural…

there is an interesting challenge for men esp. (and possibly women captured by society’s default misogyny) to ask themselves - what are they losing out by devaluing women / girls… while some might see it as a short cut to seeing themselves in a better light, in reality it doesn’t do that… as a society we lose out, we lose the richness that comes from fulfilled people of both sexes, we have increased mental health issues, we waste huge amounts of talent - we become a broken and dysfunctional society - and in doing all that the men don’t raise themselves up they actually become lesser beings…

this is at the heart of why I as a man am so strongly supportive of the feminist drive to rebalance society and bring in equality… the more I can help build up women - the better a man I become - I am not somehow lesser because I put others first or work to support, value and enhance who they are and the opportunities they can have.

it is so important that girls are supported and raised up - not just for their own benefit (which is vital and the priority), but because it builds a stronger richer and more capable society…

the irony is that boys benefit long term more from building up girls than from pulling them down.

so it is critical that every instance like this should have every decent person stepping in and saying stop - let us consider the boy / the girls / society - and for all, the benefit will come in building up each to be the best they can - the boy to become the best shape of man and the girls to become the best shape of women - and that means that we don’t support the lies / deceit and devaluing of girls that comes from letting a boy pretend to be a girl and join in girls’ races…

instead the boy needs to be shown that he can be whatever shape of man he wishes (but he will never be a girl / woman), the girls need to be supported and shown that they are valued and can excel at sports etc and both need to see adults valuing them all equally

it is why it is critical that scenarios like this don’t happen… and all decent people should be standing up to stop it from happening again…

Would that more men thought as you do, @akkakk- and that those that do actually said so more often.

Thank you - I am lucky to have been surrounded by strong female friends and their husbands who modelled truly equal relationships - and a superb wife (top of her game as a consultant surgeon) - all of whom have demonstrated how much richer relationships are when you build both up equally rather than tear the other down to make yourself look good…

I think that there are a lot of men who would think the same way, except they have no need to stop and think about it when so much is stacked in their favour…

I don’t know how we improve that situation and get more men to realise what they are losing by not supporting women - but it is important to do so… and my desire to believe the best of others leads me to hope that most could come to that realisation - it would be a sobering thought if most men were unredeemable misogynists- it would make me embarrassed to be a man…

if anyone has ideas as to how it can be done - I would be happy to be involved - while I understand that the crisis now is to reclaim what should be female and has been taken away (from spaces to even the meaning of the word woman), long term we need to understand how to celebrate difference and strengths and mutual togetherness and value (different but equal) of the sexes

That would be an excellent idea for survey!

When it comes to STEM subjects, it has already been shown teaching in sex segregated schools or at least courses motivates girls.

Your comment resonated with me. I watched “my” fast girls yesterday. Against boys they didn’t do as well as they would have against other girls. My friend and I both on the finish line awarded first and second place to both boys and girls separately.

I wasn’t coming back to this chat, just having a nose and saw your comment.

Even if they get awarded first girl across the line.. it is not the same as winning... they are impacted by not feeling good enough.. not feeling like a winner, not getting their moment in the limelight.. the best of the lovers...but not the best..

After attending a primary school sports day today, you could see why there should be separate races for girls and boys. The difference showed from year 3 onwards. Before that it was fairly even between girls and boys. Yet after that, it was quite clear the boys had an advantage. Their bodies and hormones are different. Having to sit and explain that to my DD this evening just didn’t feel fair. I’m seriously considering raising the conversation with school to see if they will reconsider for next sports day. Whilst some say it’s just for fun, it isn’t when the school have house points riding on it and the winning house of the term win a party. I don’t agree with bribery in school but incorporating this bribery into sports day takes away the just for fun element for kids

Yes well short of being able to rearrange the whole day we did what we could. What would you have done? On the day. Completely random decision on the finish lines just you and a colleague?

And also, don't forget it's a primary school sports day. Really it's meant to be fun, not about who has a competitive advantage over who

if the school sports day really were just about fun and not about competition, they wouldn't organise races on sports day, would they? In fact, they wouldn't have sports day at all as sport is inherently competitive. They'd have 'activity day' instead and people would do genuinely non-competitive physical activities.

its only when girls are losing out to boys that organised races and competitions and rankings suddenly become ' just a bit of fun and not really a competition and, stop making such a fuss and get over yourself girls.'

Meanwhile, the boys in the boys sports get their training taken seriously and their competitions taken seriously.

Sounds like a really good idea in the moment, and I’m sure it was a positive for those girls.