Trans girl winning every race at primary sports day

[Minibea]

My DD is 8 so in year 3 at primary school. There is a male child who self-identified as a girl from roughly age 6 and has socially transitioned at school. I’ve discussed this with DD along the lines of the importance of being inclusive, respecting someone right to be addressed in the way that they prefer etc but have also been clear with her that this child is biologically male and that you can’t change your sex. All fine.

Yesterday was school sports day. The child in question won every single race again the girls. DD is quite sporty and was up there with a chance of winning in all the races so is disappointed.

I don’t want to be “that” parent with school, nor rock the boat with the parents, but as the kids get older I’m concerned about the message this is sending and also the implications for bathroom arrangements, residential trips etc etc. So I want to ask school to provide/confirm their policy around all of this but what exactly do I need to see/hear? And what “should” the policy be so I can sense check it against what’s actually happening? An idiots guide would be most welcome!

And I again disagree.

It is timely to address this now so the school has time to correct it and the relevant decision makers can consider it for next year rather than leaving it to the last minute.

‘Fun’. There also seems to be this term repeated as if to dismiss the competition, even mild competition, isn’t ‘fun’. Is that an adult perspective ? Or is that someone who either doesn’t like even fun competition or thinks that all competition is a negative?

And I don’t understand this “I always ignore anything that isn’t so i skipped past them’. Please can you clarify why you skipped past them?

Yes. This.

Pleasepleaseplease read the thread. It's only short, and all your points, including this one, are address in extensive detail elsewhere.

Is there a point where minor differences are to be considered not enough to warrant giving female children fair sport’s days?

The sport should have been girls and boys earlier but the school will have to deal with the situation and make it fair.

To be clear, your school split the races into boys' and girls', yes? (asking just because some posters are assuming they were mixed).
If they're sex-segregated then yes, obviously they should be ACTUALLY sex-segregated, no matter how anyone identifies.

And it's not 'only' sports day; this stuff is all part of a bigger picture that adds up to mean, as a pp has said, that all the pupils (girls AND boys), not to mention those watching, that a single male's needs and wants trump those of all females.
Not to mention probably discouraging girls from taking part in sport, which is a huge problem already.

It matters to those girls now

lots will be put off and think why bother

my dd was fast at that age, only one boy she sometimes couldn’t beat but its really really not about those outlier girls

its about all girls

wait til it matters…for goodness sake 😒

Oh and she would have been fucking furious if he was in the girls race and kept losing to him 😀

nobody would have been in any doubt that it ‘mattered’

but then we always did fair in my house 🤷🏻

It's quite easy to get from one to the other when your "everyone" really means "every male"

As a poster above said, the message this sends to girls is awful, but sadly it's just one of many that society sends to girls from a depressingly early age that men and boys matter more.

And finally, because I have a few minutes. If there is even a small advantage, this means that logically and realistically girls generally will be working harder than the boys.

What is this messaging to the girls? And do people think that children don’t understand this?

The outcome is that girls feel that they have to put in more work just to be recognised for their exceptional performance. Whereas the boys only have to perform enough to beat the person behind them.

This is the dynamic that is supported with these mixed sex races. Whether it is intended or not.

Why do we teach children that we undervalue their efforts?

If we, as parents, can’t be bothered ‘whining and bitching’, or just politely raising the point officially, why should we expect girls to be bothered putting in the effort.

And if in a few years parents turn around and say, why don’t you enjoy sport? What the fuck do those who dismissed their needs for single sex sports expect girls to say?

On one hand we are saying ‘girls need to do more sport’ and on the other we are saying ‘don’t worry girls if boys beat you, some other girls beat boys, you are obviously not good enough’..

And do some people think the only time to address this situation, even with the evidence being conclusive, is if there comes a time at that particular school when no girls are winning? Because until then some people will dismiss the evidence and rely on unscientific and fallacious arguments to justify inaction, and the old ‘my child’s alright’ argument.

Also if the desired outcome is ‘fun’ then don’t do races in this way. Make them themed or silly. Do team ball games. But why do a race where one child’s performance is rewarded over another?

As the mother of two deeply unathletic children I very much preferred the team sports approach to school sports day in primary school. I agree that if you're going to say something is for girls then it should be for girls. The op said she didn't want to be 'that Mum' and I was suggesting a way to approach it that she might be more comfortable with.

Tread carefully though. Our primary school has a running team that takes the best 10 girls and boys each year. In the year group with trans kids they just took the top 20 kids, to avoid the issue, so only 3 girls offered a spot. They didn't then have enough girls to have a team of four at any events, so it was crap for them - a boy who was 17th in the year got more celebrating and praise than the girl who'd have been 4th.

If the school have lazy or cowardly management, it's easier just to take things from the girls.

Our school also allowed them to share with whoever they wanted (always opposite sex) at residentials. It was terrible management and I wish we'd had the SC judgement when my DD was there.

I would have withdrawn my daughter from the race .

We just need to ask "why do we have single sex sports competitions?"

Because boys are faster/stronger/bigger than girls.

Wearing a frock doesn't make him weaker/smaller/slower.

DDs primary did similar - 4 houses, most of the events were things like cumulative jumps and throws (even the weakest throw added to the total and all were enthusiastically cheered for their effort), sack relay. But they had single sex sprint races for years 5 and 6, which were for the more athletic kids. So everyone participated in fun events but the athletes could shine too.

Most activities at my boys' school are mixed sex, but the races are separated by sex because in general the boys are going to be faster. DD starts school next year and if there was a boy in the girls' race I would not be happy at all. If that boy won I'd be telling DD that he's not the real winner as he's not a girl and the winner is actually whichever girl came second.

Sports day being 'just for fun' makes no sense in this context. What is supposed to be 'fun' about deliberately segregating children by sex but then for some reason allowing only one child of the opposite sex into a race? The races would then have to all be mixed as they would no longer be boy/girl.

Yeah at my childrens school there were mixed sex throwing netballs, obstacle course balls in a bucket type stuff and thats what your ‘team’ won

and then races for those children who had done well in trials before hand

And I don’t understand this “I always ignore anything that isn’t so i skipped past them’. Please can you clarify why you skipped past them?

So peer reviewed data has undergone a formal evaluation by experts in fields and it ensures quality, validity and reliability of data. It’s used for scientific articles and items published in journals etc. It ensures a high standard of research and supports the integrity of scientific findings.

So I rely on this data to make assumptions, there was one linked from Wiley which is the one I read.

I discounted another one posted as it’s not been peer reviewed and I don’t find it useful to base facts from these. It could just be someone writing what they want to write, without the correct facts to back it up. Which is how we end up with wrong data and extreme views in the public domain.

Anyway….hopefully the OP has lots of ideas now how to approach this. I reckon the school needs to think about how to ensure this ‘trans child’ understands the difference between gender presentation and sex, and that the latter is important and they can’t change their sex. Support the child to be a beautiful longhaired boy with a feminine name rather than continue to push the lie that a boy can ever be a girl. If the child was under the delusion that he was really just like other girls, maybe his sports day performance may have made him wonder. Better, ultimately kinder, to gently steer him towards reality now rather than waiting for puberty, surely?

Not much fun for all those girls who had no chance of winning.

Setting the boy up to expect all the accolades and accommodations because he’s special. Not very good for him as he gets older. Do the school realise they are going against the Cass report by affirming?

Wow LadyQuack, what an awful approach by the school. Thanks for highlighting.

I understand the peer review process thank you. Most of the studies I linked were peer reviewed reviews. Hence I questioned why you skipped the studies the first time.

Is there a way that I can post them that will highlight that people should make the effort to read them?

Ok everyone if there’s no or hardly any advantages why aren’t all sports mixed. It’s for many reasons but:
: because generally the stereotyping has already begun and boys are doing more sport than girls eg football rugby (although I know this is improving)
: many boys are already more pushy and don’t like to ‘loose to a girl’ (neither do many parents like to see this, yes I have experience)
: girls sport is not promoted as much as boys eg netball vs football
: girls stop sport earlier - bad because sport is good for health, confidence and body image

I would be annoyed too, yes it’s fun, but it’s still competitive and competition imo is good (when it’s fair). The young girls are already been shown a boys feelings are more important. Shocking.

Great post.

@Glowingup

"They’re 8. My kids primary school has all mixed races and the boys don’t win them all and nobody whines and bitches about them being mixed either."

boys not winning ALL the races is not statistically relevant.

"... boy is small for his age and several girls are taller and bigger"

is statistically completely irrelevant

Questions, that you should ask:

• what is the average size of all the boys in the class?
• how many boys are above the boys average?
• what is the average size of all the girls?
• how many girls are above the girls average?
• how does the boys average compare to the girls average?
• how many girls are above the boys average and vice versa?
• and how do girls and boys of the same height perform against each other?
• how many races are run in your kids primary school?
• how many boys/girls compete in these races?
• how many races are won by girls and how many by boys? does it reflect the percentage of boys/girls participating?
• do the 1st place, 2nd, 3rd place winner distribution reflect the percentage of girls/boys participating?
• does the percentage of girls/boys winning a race change if you look at older years?
• is the placement of boys/girls in a race evenly distributed? Or are the fastest 50% finishers pretty much all boys (or girls)? Does this change, if you look at older years?

Of course all this is a lot of work and effort, and you need to have large enough sample sizes, so just participating in your kids sports day isn't really giving you the data. The vage claim about whining and bitching comes across as trying to shut everyone up and ignore all statistics given for example by @Helleofabore . And comparing mixed competitions and single sex competitions where you let a member of the opposite sex enter is just muddying the water.

Having mixed competitions at primary age is not necessarily a problem. And the difference between boys and girls can even be motivating for girls. At a later age, top performing women often find it useful to train with men. But be honest and clear-sighted about it!