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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans girl winning every race at primary sports day

235 replies

Minibea · 01/07/2025 21:47

My DD is 8 so in year 3 at primary school. There is a male child who self-identified as a girl from roughly age 6 and has socially transitioned at school. I’ve discussed this with DD along the lines of the importance of being inclusive, respecting someone right to be addressed in the way that they prefer etc but have also been clear with her that this child is biologically male and that you can’t change your sex. All fine.

Yesterday was school sports day. The child in question won every single race again the girls. DD is quite sporty and was up there with a chance of winning in all the races so is disappointed.

I don’t want to be “that” parent with school, nor rock the boat with the parents, but as the kids get older I’m concerned about the message this is sending and also the implications for bathroom arrangements, residential trips etc etc. So I want to ask school to provide/confirm their policy around all of this but what exactly do I need to see/hear? And what “should” the policy be so I can sense check it against what’s actually happening? An idiots guide would be most welcome!

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 01/07/2025 22:55

Another study from Gregory Brown and team regarding children. They have now covered running, swimming and now other track events.

Sex-based differences in shot put, javelin throw, and long jump in 8-and-under and 9–10-year-old athletes

Gregory A Brown, Brandon S Shaw & Ina Shaw
Published 14 December 2024

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ejsc.12241

Highlights

Males in the 8-and-under age group outperformed females of the same ages by 19.3% in shot put, 32.6% in javelin throw, and 4.7% in long jump.
Males in the 9–10-year-old age group outperformed females of the same ages by 6.5% in shot put, 23.5% in javelin throw, and 3.9% in long jump.
The average differences between the first through fourth place finishers within males and within females were smaller than the sex-based differences between males and females in all but 9–10-year-old shot put.

CONCLUSION
In conclusion, although some have stated that the prepubertal sex-based differences in athletic performance are immaterial or absent, the present data indicate that in the 8-and-under group and 9–10-year-old age group, males achieved greater distances in shot put, javelin throw, and long jump. Although some females in these age groups threw or jumped farther than some males, the average distances for shot put, javelin throw, and long jump for males were farther than for females; the best performing males threw and jumped farther than the best performing females and the average differences between the sexes were larger than within sex differences for the top 4 finalists (i.e., those in closest competition for a medal) for all events and ages except shot put in the 9–10-year old age group. As throwing and jumping are key components of many sports, these sex-based differences in shot put, javelin throw, and long jump between males and females ages 10-and-under should be considered when sport governing bodies and policy makers consider the issue of sex-segregated sporting categories.

Helleofabore · 01/07/2025 22:56

SEX BASED GRIP STRENGTH DIFFERENCES IN CHILDREN

Sex Differences in Grip Strength From Birth to Age 16: A Meta-Analysis
James L Nuzzo

15 February 2025

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ejsc.12268

Conclusion
Boys have greater grip strength than girls from birth onward. Prior to age 11, the sex difference in grip strength is small-to-moderate in size, with female grip strength about 90% of male grip strength. At age 11, the sex difference in grip strength decreases because girls reach puberty earlier than boys. Nevertheless, boys still retain a strength advantage at age 11. After male puberty, the size of the sex difference in grip strength increases markedly. At age 16, female grip strength is 65% of male grip strength. With a few exceptions, the observed effect sizes have been largely consistent across time and place. Together, with other findings from the biological and medical literature, the current results suggest a largely biological origin of the sex difference in grip strength in children and adolescents.

Helleofabore · 01/07/2025 22:57

And this one

Sex Differences in 1600-m Running Performance and Participation for Children Aged 6–12 yr

Christensen, Mandy W.; Griffiths, Christine M
Summer 2025

journals.lww.com/acsm-esm/fulltext/2025/07000/sex_differences_in_1600_m_running_performance_and.5.aspx

Abstract

Introduction
In children, females participate in sport and physical activity less than males and have lower peak oxygen intake values. How this sexual dimorphism in the aerobic capacity of children affects the aerobic performances of children in a 1600-m race and whether the reported discrepancy in sport and physical activity participation accounts for any sex differences in aerobic performance are unknown. The purpose of this study was to 1) identify sex-based differences in aerobic running performance at 1600 m for children aged 6–12 yr and 2) investigate sex-based differences in participation in children and any relationship between participation and sex differences in aerobic performance.

Methods
We compared 1600-m running velocities (in m·s−1) and participation for 3621 children in the United States in grades 1–6 (ages 6–12 yr) for the years 2007–2014 that were obtained from a publicly available website (runnercard). We correlated the female participation with the performance difference between the sexes for each year and grade. We also created a mathematical model to predict the mean velocity () needed to equalize the sex difference in performance if participation was equalized.

Results
Male children were faster (3.00 ± 0.53 m·s−1) than female children (2.77 ± 0.49 m·s−1) at every grade level, with an average difference of 7.7% (P < 0.001). Participation was lower for female children (46.2%; χ2 = 13.0, P = 0.02) and there was no correlation between female participation and the performance difference between sexes (Pearson’s r= 0.255, P = 0.96). needed to equalize the sex difference in performance if participation was equalized was 4.39 m·s−1, which was greater than the observed female mean plus two standard deviations.

Conclusions
Male children are faster than female children at running 1600 m at ages 6–12 yr. This sex difference was not a result of lower female participation and suggests that innate physiological sex differences may be responsible.

Sex Differences in 1600-m Running Performance and... : Exercise, Sport, and Movement

cy in sport and physical activity participation accounts for any sex differences in aerobic performance are unknown. The purpose of this study was to 1) identify sex-based differences in aerobic running performance at 1600 m for children aged 6–12 yr a...

https://journals.lww.com/acsm-esm/fulltext/2025/07000/sex_differences_in_1600_m_running_performance_and.5.aspx

minnienono · 01/07/2025 23:01

Be that parent. There’s a reason children are segregated by sex even at primary for sports

CagneyNYPD1 · 01/07/2025 23:07

GingerBeverage · 01/07/2025 22:49

If they’re all equal physically, why does the WHO have separate growth charts for boys and girls?
You can check at the back of the red book.

Bang on the money.

WithSilverBells · 01/07/2025 23:08

If you have a girls-only race and you allow a boy to take part, then you are teaching all the girls and the boys watching and all the parents that the collective needs of those girls are secondary to those of a single male. The trusted adults in that school are publically humiliating the girls and the misogyny is so deeply ingrained that they are, presumably, completely oblivious to it.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/07/2025 23:09

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 01/07/2025 22:47

And also, don't forget it's a primary school sports day. Really it's meant to be fun, not about who has a competitive advantage over who. There is always one who goes before the whistle and they don't tend to get penalised for it. Thai year a kid lost his shoe and got another chance in the next race. The main thing for the school will be making sure everyone has a good time and participates....so if the trans kid wants to race against the girls then let him....

It’s meant to be a good time for the girls too.Hmm
Any male children who want to compete should certainly be allowed to - against the other boys even if they are wearing ‘girls’ clothes.

Minibea · 01/07/2025 23:10

Thanks everyone for your opinions and for those who provided helpful links etc. I’m going to sleep on it. I totally agree that it is “only” sport day and it’s meant to be fun, this isn’t competitive sport and we’re not aiming for the Olympics and the thousand other reasons for being very British and not making a fuss. But by the same token, if all things are equal why aren’t boys and girls racing together anyway?The fact that they race separately from Reception must mean something. FWIW I like the kid, I like the family, I don’t care that she wants to use a girls name, wears the girls uniform etc. but I also feel that if we set this precedent for 8 year olds, then when they all go to secondary and we’re talking about 15 year olds, the precedent will already have been set.

OP posts:
Zapx · 01/07/2025 23:12

Be that parent OP! If the school are choosing to segregate the races on the basis of sex, then that is what they should do. It’s the patriarchy in action in my opinion - an entitled male child is being allowed to take girl’s titles and places. We need to show girls that they matter.

Helleofabore · 01/07/2025 23:13

WithSilverBells · 01/07/2025 23:08

If you have a girls-only race and you allow a boy to take part, then you are teaching all the girls and the boys watching and all the parents that the collective needs of those girls are secondary to those of a single male. The trusted adults in that school are publically humiliating the girls and the misogyny is so deeply ingrained that they are, presumably, completely oblivious to it.

Spot on

Helleofabore · 01/07/2025 23:18

Minibea · 01/07/2025 23:10

Thanks everyone for your opinions and for those who provided helpful links etc. I’m going to sleep on it. I totally agree that it is “only” sport day and it’s meant to be fun, this isn’t competitive sport and we’re not aiming for the Olympics and the thousand other reasons for being very British and not making a fuss. But by the same token, if all things are equal why aren’t boys and girls racing together anyway?The fact that they race separately from Reception must mean something. FWIW I like the kid, I like the family, I don’t care that she wants to use a girls name, wears the girls uniform etc. but I also feel that if we set this precedent for 8 year olds, then when they all go to secondary and we’re talking about 15 year olds, the precedent will already have been set.

No. Sorry OP, I am going to disagree with you.

It may be 'just a sports day', but these days are so very important to encourage girls to participate in sport. Girls who find they enjoyed the day and felt they were rewarded even in improving or getting a place may well go on to try more sports and get involved.

There is certainly more than one way to discourage a girl to not want to participate in sport. And that is dismissing this as not being an issue because a parent, doesn't put value in the day.

Walkerzoo · 01/07/2025 23:18

I would be that parent.
Sports is one thing but there is no way my DD would be changing for PR with a boy. Same with residentials. They need to get this sorted

TaupeMember · 01/07/2025 23:30

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 01/07/2025 22:47

And also, don't forget it's a primary school sports day. Really it's meant to be fun, not about who has a competitive advantage over who. There is always one who goes before the whistle and they don't tend to get penalised for it. Thai year a kid lost his shoe and got another chance in the next race. The main thing for the school will be making sure everyone has a good time and participates....so if the trans kid wants to race against the girls then let him....

Poppycock

Helleofabore · 01/07/2025 23:36

I have had female family members who have gone on to compete at elite levels of sports because they did well at primary school sports. Because they enjoyed their events and even got a ribbon.

I don’t know why people dismiss primary school sports days as not having importance beyond just being in it. Sure, for some, but for others it encourages them to do more sport and explore what they like or don’t like.

ReadingSoManyThreads · 01/07/2025 23:42

akkakk · 01/07/2025 21:59

I would be that parent, I would ask why there is a boy running in the girls races…

I would also mention that I expect all the results to be amended (cf the thread on here about UPenn for an example of what they say they will be doing), or you will be happy to see the head in court for sex discrimination…

remember:

  • schools rarely now care about your child (individual teachers might, schools rarely do).
  • In a few more years you will have nothing more to do with them anyway.
  • Supporting your daughter is important
  • showing your daughter that men can not just trample over women is important
  • you will be correct in law
  • you are backed by the SC judgement - men can not be women - so, boys can not be girls.

also perhaps reach out to Sharon Davies or Martina Navratilova on social media - they are two of the biggest advocates for removing men from female sport

This!

BE THAT PARENT!

Catiette · 01/07/2025 23:43

Helleofabore · 01/07/2025 23:18

No. Sorry OP, I am going to disagree with you.

It may be 'just a sports day', but these days are so very important to encourage girls to participate in sport. Girls who find they enjoyed the day and felt they were rewarded even in improving or getting a place may well go on to try more sports and get involved.

There is certainly more than one way to discourage a girl to not want to participate in sport. And that is dismissing this as not being an issue because a parent, doesn't put value in the day.

I agree. These are huge formative experiences. I'd be prepared to bet that most posters here will include sports days among their earliest memories. Why? Because of that sense of excitement that comes from competition, whether in the form of pride for the more sporty & successful, or... er... a certain tension for the rest of us (that would certainly include me!) Either way, though, it's centred on the anticipation of the race - where else would it come from? And your experience of that race crystallises what stays with you. You win, or get 2nd or 3rd? You remember it! You perceive unfairness? You really remember that.

I'd also add that, for this reason, I disagree strongly with any suggestions that parents shouldn't have applauded the boy etc. - at that age, he's a victim in this, too. But applaud the girls following him just as loudly. And then follow it up discretely but firmly. Because it's. not. fair.

As a non-sporty girl, I still have my skipping-100-times certificate, and still remember feeling I had a hope in an egg-and-spoon race (the starting gun put me right!).

Given how much I disliked athletics, it's actually quite revealing how many of my primary school memories are of this regardless. Because there was always the hope that I may surprise myself, and the validity of at least being able (OK, forced sometimes!) to try.

I don't understand the argument for taking this from multiple girls just to give it to one boy.

JellySaurus · 01/07/2025 23:45

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 01/07/2025 22:47

And also, don't forget it's a primary school sports day. Really it's meant to be fun, not about who has a competitive advantage over who. There is always one who goes before the whistle and they don't tend to get penalised for it. Thai year a kid lost his shoe and got another chance in the next race. The main thing for the school will be making sure everyone has a good time and participates....so if the trans kid wants to race against the girls then let him....

And if the Y6 kid wants to race against the Y1 kids, should we also let him?

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/07/2025 23:46

If you say so.

CriticalCondition · 01/07/2025 23:46

The school wouldn't let a Year 6 child identify as Year 3 and run in the Year 3 races. Or a parent run in the kids' races.

These experiences as a young child are very formative. I vividly remember being humiliated by my PE teacher in front of the whole class when I was 9. It put me off sport for 50 years.

Make a fuss, OP. It matters. You won't be the only one who thinks it isn't right.

caringcarer · 01/07/2025 23:48

akkakk · 01/07/2025 21:59

I would be that parent, I would ask why there is a boy running in the girls races…

I would also mention that I expect all the results to be amended (cf the thread on here about UPenn for an example of what they say they will be doing), or you will be happy to see the head in court for sex discrimination…

remember:

  • schools rarely now care about your child (individual teachers might, schools rarely do).
  • In a few more years you will have nothing more to do with them anyway.
  • Supporting your daughter is important
  • showing your daughter that men can not just trample over women is important
  • you will be correct in law
  • you are backed by the SC judgement - men can not be women - so, boys can not be girls.

also perhaps reach out to Sharon Davies or Martina Navratilova on social media - they are two of the biggest advocates for removing men from female sport

I'd b that parent too. It's just not fair having mixed sex races. If be pointing the Headteacher to the recent court judgements and the fact males are now being excluded from female sport. This school is not above court judgements.

2021x · 01/07/2025 23:48

Absolutely not.

We are not going to continue to teach girls that mens feelings are more important than theirs.

JellySaurus · 01/07/2025 23:48

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 01/07/2025 22:43

To be fair, lots of the 8 yr old girls beat the 8 year old boys at my dd's sports day (mixed races) so I don't think there is a huge amount in it at this age. I wouldn't say anything at this point. See how the school handles it later on when it starts to matter more.

It's starts to matter now. No, it started to matter from the day that boy was introduced as a girl, from the moment the girls were told to lie to save a boy's feelings, were told to step aside and allow a boy to take their place purely because he was a boy who wanted it.

Delphinium20 · 01/07/2025 23:50

Sometimeswinning · 01/07/2025 22:31

At this age I think it’s all equal still. My dd is faster than some of the boys in her year and there’s a girl who often wins all the mixed races.

At my school the top 3 fastest in my class are 2 boys and one girl. It’s always close.

Faster than some is the operative word. One girl who is fastest is an anomaly even at that age. And I have a DD who ran faster than every boy except 2 when she was 7. Today she’s a strong athlete.

but it’s not equal even at that age because despite those few exceptions, the majority of the boys beat the majority of the girls.

Delphinium20 · 01/07/2025 23:53

You’re not the only parent who is pissed off at that family. It’s not the boy’s fault, in fact, he’s likely being emotionally abused by his parents which may lead to physical abuse once he comes close to puberty. They are not nice people.

Helleofabore · 01/07/2025 23:53

For those who dismiss separating sports event by sex in primary school, as the evidence shows those male athletes still have advantages, would you still be saying ‘it is just a sports day’ if no girls won at all?

And do you realise that the girls who do win have truly exceptional performances?. Because on average, those boys had the advantage.

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