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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Bluestocking - Invoking Split Pea Annexe B

1000 replies

Magpiecomplex · 01/07/2025 08:01

Welcome all, pull up a gerbil and make yourself comfortable!

OP posts:
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172
DeanElderberry · 09/07/2025 12:40

Press was still standard Scots English in the early-mid 20th century (I did a Dorita Fairlie Bruce marathon read a few years ago, and she was careful to use enough Scots to make a reader aware of her own background). It was standard English half a century earlier - Lewis Carroll used it in Alice's Adventures - as he did ' the messages' for 'the shopping'. I have a feeling both might still be used in Scotland.

Then there's the song Shakespeare and various other 16th c Engish writers quoted ‘Caleno Custureme’, probably 'Cailín ó Chois tSiúre mé' I am a girl from the banks of the Suir.

SionnachRuadh · 09/07/2025 12:50

I grew up doing the messages, but Ulster English has a lot of Scots in it and a lot of northern English dialect. I suspect you could find older people in Belfast using terms that have fallen out of use in Scotland.

For what it's worth Ancestry DNA says I'm mostly Scottish and Manx - northern endogamy is quite a thing.

MyrtleLion · 09/07/2025 12:55

My Scottish Nana (great grandmother) always said "messages" for errands. My Scottish dad used to say pals for friends, which was weird to us in England. He did once say he'd never imagined he would have English children. To which I replied, I am British, not English. And now I'm officially Irish too thanks to his Irish dad.

DeanElderberry · 09/07/2025 13:06

Message and presses alive and well in mid-west Ireland.

DeanElderberry · 09/07/2025 13:07

Are pals weird? I like having pals.

I'm possibly recovering from that English childhood.

SionnachRuadh · 09/07/2025 13:07

And now it's the time of day when I'm supposed to get away from my screen and go a dander.

Though my mobility isn't what it was, so sometimes I pauchle more than dander.

AsWithGlad · 09/07/2025 13:16

The patient advice service at a large teaching hospital local to me is known by the acronym PALS. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

The linked page also has a section saying they are getting more messages than usual. I heard an article on R4 yesterday, possibly on More or Less, or Room 101 with Hannah Fry as the guest, about a similar automatic message you often get when you try to contact a service by telephone. It was quite interesting.

Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS)

https://www.cuh.nhs.uk/contact-us/let-us-know-your-views/get-advice-or-raise-a-concern-the-patient-advice-and-liaison-service/

AsWithGlad · 09/07/2025 13:17

Is pauchle similar in meaning to pootle, @SionnachRuadh?

SionnachRuadh · 09/07/2025 13:19

AsWithGlad · 09/07/2025 13:17

Is pauchle similar in meaning to pootle, @SionnachRuadh?

It's about the same, which makes me wonder about whether they have a similar root.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 09/07/2025 13:33

MyrtleLion · 09/07/2025 12:55

My Scottish Nana (great grandmother) always said "messages" for errands. My Scottish dad used to say pals for friends, which was weird to us in England. He did once say he'd never imagined he would have English children. To which I replied, I am British, not English. And now I'm officially Irish too thanks to his Irish dad.

I love the Scottish phrase “getting your messages”, @MyrtleLion.

If we aren’t keen on pals, how do we feel about chums? It feels vintage Mallory Towers, to me.

MyrtleLion · 09/07/2025 13:53

Chums is definitely early 20th century English, possibly PG Wodehouse-esque. More masculine than feminine in my opinion, but i can imagine Darrell talking about chums. Maybe they're not as close as friends, but are closer than acquaintances?

I am beginning to realise that my understanding of friendship is much more intense than others'.

I see my friends as very close and able to be depended on, but I think others think of them as the people you know and like (a lot of the time), but who you might not always trust.

I only have a few friends, some of whom I haven't seen in years, but I could immediately reconnect as if we saw each other yesterday.

🤔

FuzzyPuffling · 09/07/2025 13:58

Over covid, DH and I were royally shafted by some "friends". It really damaged us, and we are both very cautious now about "friendships".

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 09/07/2025 14:06

{{{hugs}}} @FuzzyPuffling.

Chersfrozenface · 09/07/2025 14:10

This page from the Imperial War Museum notes that "the phrase 'battalion of pals'" was coined by Lord Derby.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-pals-battalions-of-the-first-world-war

Lord Derby had strong links with Lancashire, admittedly, but he was the 17th Earl, his mother was a Villiers, and he was born in London and educated at Wellington.

He may, of course, have deliberately chosen a more demotic word - he first used it when addressing Liverpudlians as part of a recruitment campaign.

EdithStourton · 09/07/2025 14:12

FuzzyPuffling · 09/07/2025 13:58

Over covid, DH and I were royally shafted by some "friends". It really damaged us, and we are both very cautious now about "friendships".

Some people are just horrible, Fuzzy. And it does make you cautious.

MarieDeGournay · 09/07/2025 14:21

Sloeday · 09/07/2025 11:52

Sorry to butt in, but eDIL (an electronic dictionary of medieval Irish ) can also be useful to anyone interested, though you might have to search using an older spelling, in this case fráech instead of fraoch.

Fráech was also the name of a hero/demigod of the Ulster cycle.

The berries are hurts where I am in the south of Ireland too @DeanElderberry.

An electronic dictionary of medieval Irish?? You've made my day, Sloeday, and probably written it off as a day when I do anything other than doing a Pangur Bán* through eDILSmile
Please stay in the Bluestocking and have a refreshing drink, served by one of our efficient and professional gerbil serving staff, and TELL ALL about EVERYTHING you know about medieval Irish.
(On reflection, that might sound like sarcasm! it absolutely is not, we like esoteric things like that in the Bluestocking.Smile)

*Pangur Bán, White Pangur, is a poem written by an anonymous Irish monk in Reichenau in the 9th century.
Messe ocus Pangur Bán,
cechtar nathar fria saindán;
bíth a menma-sam fri seilgg,
mu menma céin im saincheirdd

Séamus Heaney translated it as

Pangur Bán and I at work,
Adepts, equals, cat and clerk:
His whole instinct is to hunt,
Mine to free the meaning pent.

More than loud acclaim, I love
Books, silence, thought, my alcove.
Happy for me, Pangur Bán
Child-plays round some mouse’s den.

Truth to tell, just being here,
Housed alone, housed together,
Adds up to its own reward:
Concentration, stealthy art.

Next thing an unwary mouse
Bares his flank: Pangur pounces.
Next thing lines that held and held
Meaning back begin to yield.

All the while, his round bright eye
Fixes on the wall, while I
Focus my less piercing gaze
On the challenge of the page.

With his unsheathed, perfect nails
Pangur springs, exults and kills.
When the longed-for, difficult
Answers come, I too exult.

So it goes. To each his own.
No vying. No vexation.
Taking pleasure, taking pains,
Kindred spirits, veterans.

Day and night, soft purr, soft pad,
Pangur Bán has learned his trade.
Day and night, my own hard work
Solves the cruxes, makes a mark.

DeanElderberry · 09/07/2025 14:38

'chums' feels dated, whereas 'pals' fills a gap between 'friends' and 'acquaintances'

Being shafted by a friend is horrible, and leaves deep scars.

I have an imaginary thing about Pangur Bán

Scribes about 30 miles from here produced manuscripts that ended up in Reichenau, possibly because the scribes moved, taking their distinctive script with them, rather than because their books moved. Though who knows?

I have heard a serious early medieval historian say quite firmly that Pangur is a Welsh name and that his owner might have picked him up as a kitten en route from Ireland to the Alps.

So I have wondered whether another scribe, returning to Ireland, might have brought a kitten or grandkitten back with him. And that, given the tomcattish tendency to wander around territory, might cats this distance from the Irish scriptorium be descendants of that most famous of all monastic mousers? I like to think or Rosy and Oscar having a little bit of library cat ancestry. They certainly delight in hunting mice.

Yes yes, whimsical nonsense. But you can't prove it ain't so.

Britinme · 09/07/2025 16:15

Re WW1 I remember the "Accrington Pals". Deffo an earlier 20th century term IMO.

I distinguish between 'friends' and 'close friends'. I have a fair number of the former, who I think of as people I have a friendly relationship with. I don't have many of the latter, and those I have I've had a long time.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 09/07/2025 16:29

That is a lovely poem, @MarieDeGournay - I don’t think I’ve read it before.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 09/07/2025 16:40

AsWithGlad · 09/07/2025 13:16

The patient advice service at a large teaching hospital local to me is known by the acronym PALS. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

The linked page also has a section saying they are getting more messages than usual. I heard an article on R4 yesterday, possibly on More or Less, or Room 101 with Hannah Fry as the guest, about a similar automatic message you often get when you try to contact a service by telephone. It was quite interesting.

Thanks for the radio recommendations - both are great.

lcakethereforeIam · 09/07/2025 17:02

Right, I've finally caught up with you. I've been running along behind, calling and waving, and kept catching glimpses as you disappeared round corners.

I've been knitting. Sorry, it's not your eyes. The picture, when it's approved, is a bit blurry. I just have to sew in the end bits. I have no idea what blocking is, so I probably haven't done that. I thinks they're 6", or thereabouts, square. The pawprint one I'm quite proud of. Does anyone know where do I send them?

Bit of a call back but, didn't Lambourgini begin as a tractor manufacturer? Might still be for all I know.

The Bluestocking - Invoking Split Pea Annexe B
FuzzyPuffling · 09/07/2025 17:04

Those are beautiful Cake. They are very sea- like, so perfect for purpose.

Chersfrozenface · 09/07/2025 17:14

lcakethereforeIam · 09/07/2025 17:02

Right, I've finally caught up with you. I've been running along behind, calling and waving, and kept catching glimpses as you disappeared round corners.

I've been knitting. Sorry, it's not your eyes. The picture, when it's approved, is a bit blurry. I just have to sew in the end bits. I have no idea what blocking is, so I probably haven't done that. I thinks they're 6", or thereabouts, square. The pawprint one I'm quite proud of. Does anyone know where do I send them?

Bit of a call back but, didn't Lambourgini begin as a tractor manufacturer? Might still be for all I know.

Cake, send a PM to KnottyAndPistey of the Woolly Hugs for Swashbuckled thread in Chat saying you've made some lovely squares and asking for the postal address.

Boiledbeetle · 09/07/2025 17:16

I hate paperwork

(and lying idiots)

That is all.

<goes back to swearing "you bunch of lying arseholes" at the computer screen>

AsWithGlad · 09/07/2025 17:20

Lovely squares, @lcakethereforeIam .

I’m about to send you the Teddington address by PM.

Edit: sent. 😀

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