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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What will happen when the EHRC Code of Practice is released?

148 replies

ItsCoolForCats · 28/06/2025 08:22

And is approved by Parliament. More protests? More moobs on the streets? Will organisations follow the law now that they can no longer say they are waiting for the EHRC? Will we ever go back to 'normal'?

OP posts:
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5
myplace · 28/06/2025 15:26

I think Bee’s name is a translation of ‘Be Kind’. Even their name is greedy and demanding.

Anyhoo, this blending business your friends all do… apart from people I know who have raised it, I have never ever said anything to a trans person about their identity. Does that mean they pass? No. Of course not. It means I’m polite (and haven’t encountered them somewhere inappropriate). The transman swimming last week, the one asking me about parking arrangements last month, the one I see in my local Range… they would have no reason to think they don’t blend.

Shortshriftandlethal · 28/06/2025 15:28

When the guidance comes in the vast majority of organisations will comply with the directions. Why would they not? The only ones who won't will be those who still think there is something to be gained for them by virtue signalling.

Of course we'll still have the likes of JM railing against it, some Labour/Green/Lib Dem MPs, and many celebs will still pay lip service because they've built their social media profile on the back of it........but eventually life will resume and the world will not end.

A few court cases or even the threat of them will deter others.

Boiledbeetle · 28/06/2025 15:29

There will be whinging of unfairness and loads more complaints of perceived losses of rights, yet still no actual list of these rights they have lost.

Oh and probably a lot of group therapy appointments.🌪️🦄🦈🐝

What will happen when the EHRC Code of Practice is released?
What will happen when the EHRC Code of Practice is released?
Datun · 28/06/2025 15:29

Bee might have a better of chance of convincing women that their friends blend, if each and every challenge wasn't met with threats and violence.

Bee even gloated how KJK was attacked by someone who apparently 'blended'.

This ideology truly does addle the brain.

Helleofabore · 28/06/2025 15:29

Wowsers, that is quite the post there.

And leverages in failed experimental treatment on Lily Elbe as a claim to support ‘treatment for a century’. True, there has been male people treated by medical professionals for a century, but certainly not successfully.

Making such a claim dishonest.

PriOn1 · 28/06/2025 15:31

BeeSouriante · 28/06/2025 14:57

There's so much here that I'll have to split up to answer and, honestly, given that, even with notifications reduced as far as I can (without just blocking them all) I have 30+ (most of which is crap trolling), don't be fussed if I don't get back after.

"Honestly Bee, the only issues any of us have with what trans rights activists are demanding are the degree to which physical treatments with very severe side effects are being used to allieviate mental distress, and the conflation of sex and gender such that female people's sex-based rights and language are for some reason getting mixed up with gender validation"

This is just not true:

(a) many GC activists are explicitly eliminationist in their words

(b) most GCs in my experience use ancient homophobic tropes and laughably bad pseudoscience to imply that trans women are a sexual threat whilst gleefully ignoring that the vast majority of us take medications that are used as chemical castration agents (i.e. testosterone blockers). This is a common tactic used by hate groups throughout history (Irish people in the US, Black people, gay men and lesbians etc etc) during moral panics.

(c) many GC activists have espoused that trans people should have fundamental rights removed - a notable one was JK Rowling when she, in an opinion piece in the Times (or Telegraph, I never remember) stated that trans people should not have the presumption of innocence, which is pretty disgusting and shameful. GCs have been VERY active in trying to stop 'trans-inclusive' events happening and have time after time have (badly) attempted to try and separate trans people from our LGB siblings (carelessly not understanding queer culture at all).

etc etc

Trans people have been using cross-sex hormones for most of a century and the evidence for any harm is scant and usually related to synthetics, which barely any trans people use anyway. It's notable that I never hear GC activists express concern about the use of synthetics with younger cisgender women (where they are still used a LOT) via BC. Neither did I hear GC activists talk about the vaginal mesh scandal and rarely the issues with poor hormonal care for women going thru menopause.

When I talk to my friends who are feminists, I feel educated by them about these and many issues, when I talk with GCs, it's crickets.

It's just concern trolling and for a 'movement' that states that it's based in feminism it sure is against bodily autonomy.

Trans people have been medically transitioning for most of a century, we're hardly a secret and the 'norm' is to accept that trans people move to their acquired sex. You can see such 'woke' publications such as the Sun and Daily Star in decades past seamlessly respecting trans people's names, pronouns and gender. Nobody (including trans people) said that trans men were exactly like men or that trans women were exactly like women, but that they were close enough and that was fine.

It is 'gender critical' (I wish it critiqued gender) ideology that is new, based on the unscientific and reductionistic mantra of 'sex is immutable' and contradicting most biologists' understanding of 'sex'. Obviously GC ideology comes from TERFism, but is pretty unrecognisable now from that.

I say this as I don't believe that GC ideology is anything more than a fancy label for a moral panic - TERFism was a thing..a very strange thing that most sane ppl would recoil in horror from, but GCism is just a mask for the lizard brain disgust that you and many people have about queer people...I know it well, I've seen it my whole life.

GCs show rarely show concern for women except when it comes to trans people - in my (queer) community there was far more talk and celebration over the recent decriminalisation of abortion amendment(s) than in all the GC spaces I know. Hell, you only have to look at these forums where the anti-trans forum is constantly abuzz whilst the feminism chat forum is, well, pretty dead..and even when something does appear, it often turns into 'about the trans'.

Furthermore, with the recent removal of protections from trans people (don't gaslight me, even Cunningham acknowledged it) - there was literally no mention of the effects on cisgender women in GC spaces - something that many (non GC) woman have expressed concerns about.

This is why we call you 'anti-trans' activists - just like the women in years past who would spread panic about predatory lesbians in changing rooms, it's never about protecting women, womanhood or 'sex-based rights', it's about that seething hate of difference.

Obviously trans people are a demographic and there are dodgy trans people like any group..hell I argue with other trans people all the time and I'm not averse to telling people off. Are there things that we could do better as a (very heterogeneous) community? Sure, but y'know it's kinda hard when you're being constantly demonised in the media to an insane level, when the mental health crisis is so bad that every day I expect to hear about more terrible misery or, gods forbid, another completed suicide, when your healthcare is in shambles and your rights are being removed.

Anyway, that's enough for now, sorry if that is offensive to you. Have a lovely afternoon.

@FlirtsWithRhinos “Hey Bee, what about women? Do you ever think about them? Don’t they deserve rights too?

Bee: You lot are horrible and want to kill us all. You’re ignorant and don’t understand science. You’ve removed my rights. You don’t care about women. Trans people are much nicer and talk about women all the time. Trans people, well there might be a couple of dodgy ones, but really it’s all just your fault for demonizing us.

🙈

Shortshriftandlethal · 28/06/2025 15:32

myplace · 28/06/2025 15:26

I think Bee’s name is a translation of ‘Be Kind’. Even their name is greedy and demanding.

Anyhoo, this blending business your friends all do… apart from people I know who have raised it, I have never ever said anything to a trans person about their identity. Does that mean they pass? No. Of course not. It means I’m polite (and haven’t encountered them somewhere inappropriate). The transman swimming last week, the one asking me about parking arrangements last month, the one I see in my local Range… they would have no reason to think they don’t blend.

Quite! As said, I frequently see men presenting as women in public places...but do I shout at them or say anything.......obviously not. Why would I?

PriOn1 · 28/06/2025 15:37

Shortshriftandlethal · 28/06/2025 15:32

Quite! As said, I frequently see men presenting as women in public places...but do I shout at them or say anything.......obviously not. Why would I?

Yup. Seen a few men in inappropriate skirts and dresses in the supermarket near where my parents live. I carefully don’t look and walk away because they usually tower over me and anyone (men in particular) deliberately dressing in a provocative and openly sexualized way are probably best ignored.

TheOtherRaven · 28/06/2025 15:38

BeeSouriante · 28/06/2025 14:57

There's so much here that I'll have to split up to answer and, honestly, given that, even with notifications reduced as far as I can (without just blocking them all) I have 30+ (most of which is crap trolling), don't be fussed if I don't get back after.

"Honestly Bee, the only issues any of us have with what trans rights activists are demanding are the degree to which physical treatments with very severe side effects are being used to allieviate mental distress, and the conflation of sex and gender such that female people's sex-based rights and language are for some reason getting mixed up with gender validation"

This is just not true:

(a) many GC activists are explicitly eliminationist in their words

(b) most GCs in my experience use ancient homophobic tropes and laughably bad pseudoscience to imply that trans women are a sexual threat whilst gleefully ignoring that the vast majority of us take medications that are used as chemical castration agents (i.e. testosterone blockers). This is a common tactic used by hate groups throughout history (Irish people in the US, Black people, gay men and lesbians etc etc) during moral panics.

(c) many GC activists have espoused that trans people should have fundamental rights removed - a notable one was JK Rowling when she, in an opinion piece in the Times (or Telegraph, I never remember) stated that trans people should not have the presumption of innocence, which is pretty disgusting and shameful. GCs have been VERY active in trying to stop 'trans-inclusive' events happening and have time after time have (badly) attempted to try and separate trans people from our LGB siblings (carelessly not understanding queer culture at all).

etc etc

Trans people have been using cross-sex hormones for most of a century and the evidence for any harm is scant and usually related to synthetics, which barely any trans people use anyway. It's notable that I never hear GC activists express concern about the use of synthetics with younger cisgender women (where they are still used a LOT) via BC. Neither did I hear GC activists talk about the vaginal mesh scandal and rarely the issues with poor hormonal care for women going thru menopause.

When I talk to my friends who are feminists, I feel educated by them about these and many issues, when I talk with GCs, it's crickets.

It's just concern trolling and for a 'movement' that states that it's based in feminism it sure is against bodily autonomy.

Trans people have been medically transitioning for most of a century, we're hardly a secret and the 'norm' is to accept that trans people move to their acquired sex. You can see such 'woke' publications such as the Sun and Daily Star in decades past seamlessly respecting trans people's names, pronouns and gender. Nobody (including trans people) said that trans men were exactly like men or that trans women were exactly like women, but that they were close enough and that was fine.

It is 'gender critical' (I wish it critiqued gender) ideology that is new, based on the unscientific and reductionistic mantra of 'sex is immutable' and contradicting most biologists' understanding of 'sex'. Obviously GC ideology comes from TERFism, but is pretty unrecognisable now from that.

I say this as I don't believe that GC ideology is anything more than a fancy label for a moral panic - TERFism was a thing..a very strange thing that most sane ppl would recoil in horror from, but GCism is just a mask for the lizard brain disgust that you and many people have about queer people...I know it well, I've seen it my whole life.

GCs show rarely show concern for women except when it comes to trans people - in my (queer) community there was far more talk and celebration over the recent decriminalisation of abortion amendment(s) than in all the GC spaces I know. Hell, you only have to look at these forums where the anti-trans forum is constantly abuzz whilst the feminism chat forum is, well, pretty dead..and even when something does appear, it often turns into 'about the trans'.

Furthermore, with the recent removal of protections from trans people (don't gaslight me, even Cunningham acknowledged it) - there was literally no mention of the effects on cisgender women in GC spaces - something that many (non GC) woman have expressed concerns about.

This is why we call you 'anti-trans' activists - just like the women in years past who would spread panic about predatory lesbians in changing rooms, it's never about protecting women, womanhood or 'sex-based rights', it's about that seething hate of difference.

Obviously trans people are a demographic and there are dodgy trans people like any group..hell I argue with other trans people all the time and I'm not averse to telling people off. Are there things that we could do better as a (very heterogeneous) community? Sure, but y'know it's kinda hard when you're being constantly demonised in the media to an insane level, when the mental health crisis is so bad that every day I expect to hear about more terrible misery or, gods forbid, another completed suicide, when your healthcare is in shambles and your rights are being removed.

Anyway, that's enough for now, sorry if that is offensive to you. Have a lovely afternoon.

Not remotely interested.

I just want single sex spaces, resources and services without men in them, including men who will insist in huge walls of text that they're not men.

You are going to have to make do with the consenting ones.

Datun · 28/06/2025 15:41

PriOn1 · 28/06/2025 15:31

@FlirtsWithRhinos “Hey Bee, what about women? Do you ever think about them? Don’t they deserve rights too?

Bee: You lot are horrible and want to kill us all. You’re ignorant and don’t understand science. You’ve removed my rights. You don’t care about women. Trans people are much nicer and talk about women all the time. Trans people, well there might be a couple of dodgy ones, but really it’s all just your fault for demonizing us.

🙈

Edited

As everyone keeps saying, it's not an argument!!

I'm right, you're wrong, I'm nice, you're horrid. Blah blah blah.

I have to say, I particularly liked the 'and you don't even talk about the vaginal mesh scandal or menopause!!'

Told off for saying you can't change sex, and told off for not talking about things that are sex specific. In the same post!

😁

Datun · 28/06/2025 15:43

hell I argue with other trans people all the time and I'm not averse to telling people off.

...at least we were forewarned.

DiamondThrone · 28/06/2025 15:43

Shortshriftandlethal · 28/06/2025 15:32

Quite! As said, I frequently see men presenting as women in public places...but do I shout at them or say anything.......obviously not. Why would I?

There's a chap who comes in the cafe where I spend an hour or so a day. He is served politely, and goes on his way. He probably thinks he blends - nobody is pointing and going "Look! There's a tranny!"

borntobequiet · 28/06/2025 15:49

Nobody (including trans people) said that trans men were exactly like men or that trans women were exactly like women, but that they were close enough and that was fine

What they said was that transwomen are women (and transmen are men). Even that they are “biological” women and men, with cervixes and all. So what on earth is that supposed to mean?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/06/2025 15:49

rarely the issues with poor hormonal care for women going thru menopause.

lol we have a whole Board for the
menopause which you’d know if you looked at the breadth of issues discussed on MN rather than spending all your time here with your self centred scolding

HardyNavyBear · 28/06/2025 15:49

Highly doubtful. The world has woken up and we are no longer going to allow the TRAs to reshape society and science. Men do not have a human right to enter women’s single sex spaces. Period. Full stop.

What I find interesting is your virtue signaling. I don’t know how so many women hate themselves and girls and are gung ho with forcing men into our spaces. I am flabbergasted by women who find it completely acceptable to force girls and women to undress in front of men, almost enjoying forcing little girls and women to be forced to look at male genitalia. The fact that women now are the oppressors of violent and aggressive men with fetishes! I never knew it was a human right to allow men to be “peeping toms”.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/06/2025 15:52

DiamondThrone · 28/06/2025 15:43

There's a chap who comes in the cafe where I spend an hour or so a day. He is served politely, and goes on his way. He probably thinks he blends - nobody is pointing and going "Look! There's a tranny!"

Exactly! There’s an older bloke in a city near where I live who goes to the cathedral dressed like a prostitute who talks endlessly at the poor mostly elderly female volunteers. I can’t imagine they would ever say “bore off you silly arse you look mad” because women are endlessly socialised to be nice plus frankly they’d be scared of his reaction

TW being men havent a clue what it’s like to be socialised as a woman

borntobequiet · 28/06/2025 15:53

I just did a Google search for “vaginal mesh” and “Mumsnet” and got literally pages of relevant results.

Datun · 28/06/2025 15:53

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/06/2025 15:49

rarely the issues with poor hormonal care for women going thru menopause.

lol we have a whole Board for the
menopause which you’d know if you looked at the breadth of issues discussed on MN rather than spending all your time here with your self centred scolding

Plus 2500 hits for vaginal mesh.

You have to ask yourself why a man fails to realise that a site for 12 million unique users, largely devoted to women, wouldn't be talking about women's stuff!

MistyGreenAndBlue · 28/06/2025 15:53

BeeSouriante · 28/06/2025 12:50

Oh yes, I'm sure Kelly Jay Keen, the gentle soul who approved of a GC man talking about trans genital torture fantasies and never stops shouting at trans people, like ever..was just having a lovely chat and sat herself next to someone she thought was trans 🙄

Half of my trans friends just exist in the world in their acquired sex with only those closest knowing, most of the rest 'blend'. The whole point of transition (and why the GRA is written the way that it is) is for people to transition then just get on with their life, with dysphoria minimised.

Interesting. You comment on THIS response to your outright lies but totally ignore the post that refutes you with actual proof of your mendacity.

Actually, perhaps it's not that interesting after all. Just more of the same really

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/06/2025 15:53

borntobequiet · 28/06/2025 15:53

I just did a Google search for “vaginal mesh” and “Mumsnet” and got literally pages of relevant results.

Oh you with your actual research and facts 😁

MistyGreenAndBlue · 28/06/2025 16:03

BeeSouriante · 28/06/2025 14:57

There's so much here that I'll have to split up to answer and, honestly, given that, even with notifications reduced as far as I can (without just blocking them all) I have 30+ (most of which is crap trolling), don't be fussed if I don't get back after.

"Honestly Bee, the only issues any of us have with what trans rights activists are demanding are the degree to which physical treatments with very severe side effects are being used to allieviate mental distress, and the conflation of sex and gender such that female people's sex-based rights and language are for some reason getting mixed up with gender validation"

This is just not true:

(a) many GC activists are explicitly eliminationist in their words

(b) most GCs in my experience use ancient homophobic tropes and laughably bad pseudoscience to imply that trans women are a sexual threat whilst gleefully ignoring that the vast majority of us take medications that are used as chemical castration agents (i.e. testosterone blockers). This is a common tactic used by hate groups throughout history (Irish people in the US, Black people, gay men and lesbians etc etc) during moral panics.

(c) many GC activists have espoused that trans people should have fundamental rights removed - a notable one was JK Rowling when she, in an opinion piece in the Times (or Telegraph, I never remember) stated that trans people should not have the presumption of innocence, which is pretty disgusting and shameful. GCs have been VERY active in trying to stop 'trans-inclusive' events happening and have time after time have (badly) attempted to try and separate trans people from our LGB siblings (carelessly not understanding queer culture at all).

etc etc

Trans people have been using cross-sex hormones for most of a century and the evidence for any harm is scant and usually related to synthetics, which barely any trans people use anyway. It's notable that I never hear GC activists express concern about the use of synthetics with younger cisgender women (where they are still used a LOT) via BC. Neither did I hear GC activists talk about the vaginal mesh scandal and rarely the issues with poor hormonal care for women going thru menopause.

When I talk to my friends who are feminists, I feel educated by them about these and many issues, when I talk with GCs, it's crickets.

It's just concern trolling and for a 'movement' that states that it's based in feminism it sure is against bodily autonomy.

Trans people have been medically transitioning for most of a century, we're hardly a secret and the 'norm' is to accept that trans people move to their acquired sex. You can see such 'woke' publications such as the Sun and Daily Star in decades past seamlessly respecting trans people's names, pronouns and gender. Nobody (including trans people) said that trans men were exactly like men or that trans women were exactly like women, but that they were close enough and that was fine.

It is 'gender critical' (I wish it critiqued gender) ideology that is new, based on the unscientific and reductionistic mantra of 'sex is immutable' and contradicting most biologists' understanding of 'sex'. Obviously GC ideology comes from TERFism, but is pretty unrecognisable now from that.

I say this as I don't believe that GC ideology is anything more than a fancy label for a moral panic - TERFism was a thing..a very strange thing that most sane ppl would recoil in horror from, but GCism is just a mask for the lizard brain disgust that you and many people have about queer people...I know it well, I've seen it my whole life.

GCs show rarely show concern for women except when it comes to trans people - in my (queer) community there was far more talk and celebration over the recent decriminalisation of abortion amendment(s) than in all the GC spaces I know. Hell, you only have to look at these forums where the anti-trans forum is constantly abuzz whilst the feminism chat forum is, well, pretty dead..and even when something does appear, it often turns into 'about the trans'.

Furthermore, with the recent removal of protections from trans people (don't gaslight me, even Cunningham acknowledged it) - there was literally no mention of the effects on cisgender women in GC spaces - something that many (non GC) woman have expressed concerns about.

This is why we call you 'anti-trans' activists - just like the women in years past who would spread panic about predatory lesbians in changing rooms, it's never about protecting women, womanhood or 'sex-based rights', it's about that seething hate of difference.

Obviously trans people are a demographic and there are dodgy trans people like any group..hell I argue with other trans people all the time and I'm not averse to telling people off. Are there things that we could do better as a (very heterogeneous) community? Sure, but y'know it's kinda hard when you're being constantly demonised in the media to an insane level, when the mental health crisis is so bad that every day I expect to hear about more terrible misery or, gods forbid, another completed suicide, when your healthcare is in shambles and your rights are being removed.

Anyway, that's enough for now, sorry if that is offensive to you. Have a lovely afternoon.

If you truly believe all of that then you are living in a delusion so huge and complex that no one has any hope of ever reaching you.

DiamondThrone · 28/06/2025 16:08

Datun · 28/06/2025 15:53

Plus 2500 hits for vaginal mesh.

You have to ask yourself why a man fails to realise that a site for 12 million unique users, largely devoted to women, wouldn't be talking about women's stuff!

I reckon he noticed a couple of buzz (see what I did there) phrases and threw them back at us, not realising that we understand and care about them deeply.

Still, nobody expects logic or intellectual rigour from these ideologues.

DiamondThrone · 28/06/2025 16:09

MistyGreenAndBlue · 28/06/2025 16:03

If you truly believe all of that then you are living in a delusion so huge and complex that no one has any hope of ever reaching you.

Sums up TRAs to a tee!

DustyWindowsills · 28/06/2025 16:34

I just set up a regular donation to Sex Matters. Thanks for giving the final push, Bee.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/06/2025 16:39

Datun · 28/06/2025 15:53

Plus 2500 hits for vaginal mesh.

You have to ask yourself why a man fails to realise that a site for 12 million unique users, largely devoted to women, wouldn't be talking about women's stuff!

That's the trouble with self absorbed transactivists. They don't notice what women talk about because they're not interested.
Zero concern about safeguarding children, our appalling maternity care, VAWG, the onslaught of creeps targeting women online, social contagion amongst teenagers, the vaginal mesh scandal, the rape gangs and all the rest of it. Only if it can be weaponised to serve their own interests does it get a mention. Like the crass comment about "in my (queer) community there was far more talk and celebration over the recent decriminalisation of abortion amendment(s) than in all the GC spaces I know" There speaks someone with zero insight into the nuance and issues with that piece of legislation.

There's such a pompous arrogance in trying to lecture feminists about feminism and women's rights from such a position of profound ignorance. As ever, the over confidence of the mediocre man brings them on here.