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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Behind the ruling: how ‘Sex Matters’ is shaping UK policy on trans rights

168 replies

BeeSouriante · 27/06/2025 00:39

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/news/home-affairs/behind-the-ruling-how-sex-matters-is-shaping-uk-policy-on-trans-rights/

Sadly this is the first article in the UK media that has recognised the connections between the gender critical ideology movement (GCIM) and religious right orgs (mostly Heritage and the ADF), despite it being recognised and acknowledged by orgs and media in Europe and the US.

"The organisation’s true agenda is, I believe, best described as ‘eliminationist’: seeking through legislative bans, data policies, and the curtailing of gender-affirming care to relegate trans people in life and law to their sex at birth and make transitioning so difficult, dangerous or pointless as to functionally eliminate trans people from public life and society"

Spending time on this forum, it's quite clear that many people in the GCIM are eliminationist in their aims (just a glance at the 'do you support transitioning' thread is very eye-opening in this respect).

Behind the ruling: how ‘Sex Matters’ is shaping UK policy on trans rights

The UK Supreme Court ruling redefined ‘sex’ – but for trans people, it’s the start of something far more sweeping and exclusionary

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/news/home-affairs/behind-the-ruling-how-sex-matters-is-shaping-uk-policy-on-trans-rights/

OP posts:
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7
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/06/2025 08:59

Stop trying to make "gender critical ideology movement (GCIM)" happen.

It's not going to happen.

PS - Believing that female people are real and deserve to exist in law and have some sex based rights is not an ideology. This principle was enshrined in law in the Equality Act before the phrase "gender critical" ever entered our collective vocabulary. Believing that everyone has a gender identity which is assigned by the magic gender fairy and which usually "matches" our genitalia, but in the case of trans people doesn't match their genitalia because the magic gender fairy is a disruptive little shit who wants to make some people miserable and that it is your magical gender identity and not your sex that makes you a man or a woman very much is an ideology though.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/06/2025 08:59

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/06/2025 01:40

You know who else exists Bee?

Female people.

Female people exist.

Whatever your personal definition of a "woman" might be, the group of female people does not include you, and this remains true whatever you may change in language or in law.

So all I want to understand is why is it so important to you that a group of people who you don't even belong to, who have nothing to do your definition of "woman", who by number alone have historically been marginalised, exploited and abused more consistently than any other group of humans, whose problems are different to the problems you may or may not face, be denied legal rights, social acceptance and even our own name and language with which to speak of our own experiences?

Why is it so important to you to take away the tools we need to fight our historic and onoing marginalisation, abuse and oppression, things that are nothing to do with you or womanhood as you experience it but are centred in our female bodies and how society treats us because of them?

Because honestly, I'd really love to know.

You wanna engage on this @BeeSouriante , or are you just here to tell the mummies they are wrong?

Do you agree female people have the right to define ourselves as female, talk about what that means for us and stand against our sex based oppression even though that by definition excludes you, or not?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/06/2025 09:02

Nachoinseachthu · 27/06/2025 01:39

The Yorkshire Bylines starts drawing to a close with:

”Sex Matters is a powerful gender-critical organisation with explicit connections to organisations listed by the SPLC as anti-LGBTQ+ hate groups, actively courted by our mainstream media, and influentially enmeshed within our parliament, legal system and human rights commission.“

… but doesn’t name a single organisation. (Surely the author can’t think a conference host is an explicit connection??)

Also - so much damage is done by people unthinkingly co-opting US organisations and cultural debates and shoehorning them into a UK context - what does the SPLC have to do with anything in this country??

“Years before the Supreme Court ruling, Sex Matters were meeting with the EHRC behind closed doors to discuss a redefinition of ‘sex’ in the Equality Act to mean ‘biological sex’. “

In the context mentioned, a meeting behind closed doors is just…. a meeting.

And what earthly meaning can ‘sex’ have, other than ‘biological sex’? Can’t you see that? Open the definition to anything wider and all that you do is create an inviting space for the confused, the internet-addled, the mentally-ill, those suffering from trauma, and some very bad-faith actors. At the expense of women, and of material fucking reality.

More widely, the energy this is sucking out of the body politic is enervating Western European countries, and undermining any soft power they have with other countries, who either don’t countenance the idea of transgenderism, or use it as a form of gay conversion therapy.

Years before the Supreme Court ruling, Sex Matters were meeting with the EHRC behind closed doors to discuss a redefinition of ‘sex’ in the Equality Act to mean ‘biological sex’.

No.

The people trying to redefine sex here the ones who wanted it to mean identified sex.

The Supreme Court just confirmed that it has always meant biological sex.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/06/2025 09:02

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/06/2025 01:40

You know who else exists Bee?

Female people.

Female people exist.

Whatever your personal definition of a "woman" might be, the group of female people does not include you, and this remains true whatever you may change in language or in law.

So all I want to understand is why is it so important to you that a group of people who you don't even belong to, who have nothing to do your definition of "woman", who by number alone have historically been marginalised, exploited and abused more consistently than any other group of humans, whose problems are different to the problems you may or may not face, be denied legal rights, social acceptance and even our own name and language with which to speak of our own experiences?

Why is it so important to you to take away the tools we need to fight our historic and onoing marginalisation, abuse and oppression, things that are nothing to do with you or womanhood as you experience it but are centred in our female bodies and how society treats us because of them?

Because honestly, I'd really love to know.

A thousand times this.

womanbornn · 27/06/2025 09:05

I prefer sex realist. The only ideology here is gender ideology.

Greyskybluesky · 27/06/2025 09:08

"GCIM" - seriously 😂

Gotta label everything

FumingTRex · 27/06/2025 09:15

I heard that the far right, the church and feminists all believe the earth isnt flat too.

zanahoria · 27/06/2025 09:19

The UK Supreme Court ruling redefined ‘sex’

Even the first sentence is an absurd lie

The Supreme court just reaffirmed that it meant that the same as it ever was

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/06/2025 09:22

"Ideology". Another one of those words that the TRAs noticed being used to describe their Genderist movement, a use where it makes complete sense, and picked it up to use as a label to discredit anyone saying No to them, where it makes no sense at all.

It makes so little sense that they can't be understanding what they are saying. They must just be thinking "that sounds bad, we aren't bad so we can't be it, they are bad so they must be it." It really is that playground level.

If they actually understood words and wanted to use them to communicate, understand and find common groubd instead of throwing them around wildly to obscure, they'd know that "ideology" isn't even a criticism. Feminism is an ideological movement and I'm all for it.

If you disagree with the tenets of an Ideology, for example Feminism, then by all means tackle that, that's a rational adult way to engage. Yelling "ugh Ideology" and then running away is not.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/06/2025 09:23

Not long ago there was a large petition calling for parliament to amend the Equality Act to make it clear that sex meant biological sex. The official government response was that it was not necessary to amend the Equality Act because it was already clear. Separately, I believe there was another petition calling for parliament to amend the Equality Act to make sex mean identified sex.

user101101 · 27/06/2025 09:30

Why are there so many of these weird threads lately? Is it because women won the SC to have rights and the men are disgruntled that men don’t have more rights than women?

JustFish · 27/06/2025 09:33

Greyskybluesky · 27/06/2025 09:08

"GCIM" - seriously 😂

Gotta label everything

Do we get a flag too? All subdivisions and permeations need a flag

user101101 · 27/06/2025 09:35

Greyskybluesky · 27/06/2025 09:08

"GCIM" - seriously 😂

Gotta label everything

What’s GCIM??

Edit: ooh hahaha they can’t help themselves can they. When there’s a word women use TRAs just have to take it for themselves and pretend to be victimised. Maybe grow some logic based on reality instead, it will work better

womanbornn · 27/06/2025 09:36

user101101 · 27/06/2025 09:30

Why are there so many of these weird threads lately? Is it because women won the SC to have rights and the men are disgruntled that men don’t have more rights than women?

they’re not disgruntled. They’re fucking raging and frothing at the mouth.

WithSilverBells · 27/06/2025 09:36

Bee is throwing mud and hoping that some of it will stick.

This is what transactivists do, because they do not have a cogent, persuasive case to make for allowing a subset of men into women's spaces. They do not want to fight for their own spaces because getting into the women's spaces is necessary either for validation of for fetishistic purposes.

I, too, have been meaning to increase my Sex Matters subscription and will do so today. Thanks Bee

Helleofabore · 27/06/2025 09:36

Is GCIM another term for ‘established science’?

user101101 · 27/06/2025 09:38

JustFish · 27/06/2025 09:33

Do we get a flag too? All subdivisions and permeations need a flag

Edited

Let’s not go down that route 😂. But if we did we need to have a theme tune too

DialSquare · 27/06/2025 09:38

You lost, get over it (YLGOI)

marshmallowpuff · 27/06/2025 09:40

First, this “trans people fly under the radar and no-one can tell” stuff is pure nonsense. Everyone can tell. They are just going along with it/being polite/feigning. The pp who said they are polite people who don’t want any trouble is completely correct.

IMO, the high co-incidence of trans identification with being autistic or on the spectrum means that some transactivists misread others’ politeness and social pretence of “not noticing” as actual not knowing. I’ve been in many situations where I could absolutely tell and not said anything out of politeness. That doesn’t mean the person wasn’t “clocked” by everyone the instant they walked in. Plus, everyone’s scared of doing something to cause a complaint against them by the trans person, so they walk on eggshells not to offend. This doesn’t, however, mean that the trans person “passes”. It’s laughable that no-one in someone’s workplace knows they’re trans; and to avoid trouble they’ll find everyone does a big pretence of “not knowing” because no-body wants to be reported to HR or whatever by an aggrieved TW.

Just one result of living a pretend life is that when you do achieve the aim of making everyone pretend along with you, it’s extremely foolish to take the pretence as real. But the more you do it, the more nobody wants to be the one puncturing the bubble and upsetting the one-person Truman Show. I’m not sure I’d want to live a life where I could never be sure if people were pretending to me or being truthful, and it’s quite puzzling to me that some people apparently do?

Second, this “eliminationist” rhetoric is not just arrant nonsense, but hyperbole and poor taste in the extreme. In fact, it goes well beyond poor taste into extreme bad judgment and clear bad faith. Is it not obvious to you, @BeeSouriante, that equating women objecting to men in the loos to the gas chambers is not just an appalling thing to say, but likely instantly to lose you the support of most normal people?

The OTT rhetoric of the usual run of the mill “transperbole” is bad enough anyway, without making it genuinely offensive. Do you not see how making equivalences to the Holocaust badly damages your case and alienates right-thinking people? Here’s a bit of free advice: trans activists should stop doing this ASAP because it’s about the most offensive and counterproductive thing they could manage. They won’t listen, though, because they are their own worst enemies (operation let them speak, anyone?)

It’s so grossly offensive to compare women saying “no, you aren’t actually a woman” to mass murder that it’s genuinely amazing anyone has to say this. However, as it instantly undermines your argument and makes you all look genuinely detached from reality in an unhinged and dangerous way, who am I to try to stop you?

This is a “movement” built on pretence, gross hyperbole and lies from start to finish.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/06/2025 09:43

user101101 · 27/06/2025 09:30

Why are there so many of these weird threads lately? Is it because women won the SC to have rights and the men are disgruntled that men don’t have more rights than women?

Yep, stamping their feet and demanding everyone had to pretend not to know that female people also exist has stopped working so they are now trying to throw emotional word salads around hoping to discredit and distract from women talking to other women about the realities of being women and why legal, social.snd political recognition of sex still matters to women regardless of how that may inconvenience men's fantasies that they are also women.

Also, school/uni holidays.

borntobequiet · 27/06/2025 09:44

GCIM is obviously Gender Critical Insanity Madness. Or Green Carborundum Interspecies Mingling. Or Geuinely Capricious Immediate Mediation. Or something.

marshmallowpuff · 27/06/2025 09:48

Also, @BeeSouriante, for the avoidance of doubt in case you start jumping up and down, “normal people” in my post above doesn’t mean “non-trans” people. “Normal people” means “people with normal sane views on the world, as opposed to people with unhinged unevidenced bizarre conspiracist fringe ideas”. HTH.

RedNine · 27/06/2025 09:49

I often think of the lurkers when we get a spate of haranguing threads telling us we are wrong. The berators do our work for us - declining to engage, using hyperbole, perpetuating lies...

<waves to the lurkers> I love that you lurk, we all were you once. ❤️

user101101 · 27/06/2025 09:51

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/06/2025 09:43

Yep, stamping their feet and demanding everyone had to pretend not to know that female people also exist has stopped working so they are now trying to throw emotional word salads around hoping to discredit and distract from women talking to other women about the realities of being women and why legal, social.snd political recognition of sex still matters to women regardless of how that may inconvenience men's fantasies that they are also women.

Also, school/uni holidays.

Oooh private school hols maybe?

@WithSilverBells
yes thanks for the reminder for Sex Matters subscription 👍

marshmallowpuff · 27/06/2025 09:52

That’s why operation let them speak is so effective. Being told that women not wanting men in rape crisis counselling, or changing with your twelve year old at the pool, is equivalent to wanting to “eliminate” trans people? That’s certainly not converting anyone to the TRA cause! I don’t really know why they do it, apart from suspecting that they have problems with social communication, and don’t realise how it comes across.