"We have always been here"

[DiamondThrone]

Been noticing this a lot. It seems to be the new #TWAW #nodebate #bekind, after those didn't work.

I mean - lots of things have "always been here". Like women, for instance 😄

Just interested in new terms that arise, and how they are used to try and shut down comment.

I am saying that we can't excavate any skeleton and say with certainty how it identified. But when there's evidence that a 'female' skeleton lived as a 'man', why would you dismiss that evidence altogether?

I hope so. 😁What a joyous day that would be.

But, even then, it would have no bearing on, for example, the Supreme Court's clarification of the EA2010.

Who are the people thst claim if you like pink, spinny skirts and makeup you’re a girl? Is it
a) feminists
b) trans ideologists.
Who are the people who state there are no such thing as gendered clothes and people of both sexes can wear whatever they like but it doesn’t change their sex
a) feminists
b) trans ideologists

I responded to a 'we've always been here' type comment on some social media platform with the question, have they also been subjected to literal 'genocide' as well, because if so why haven't they been wiped out yet, after all isn't that how genocide works. Alas I got no reply to my reply.

How would they live as a man? Maybe their society subscribed to the belief that women and men could do whatever they liked and there were no gendered roles? I mean. Boudicca was buried with swords etc. Was she a man? Or a fierce female warrior?

I think that if you want me to accept that ancient peoples had a modern understanding of gender identity, the burden of proof is on you to provide solid evidence for this extraordinary claim. Everything that you have mentioned so far is not solid proof in any way, shape or form.

Oh FFS

the clue is in the name - gender critical as in critical of gender stereotypes

the only way to be a woman is to be born a juvenile female human and grown into sn adult human female, othef than that women are free to do whatever

wear trousers or a boiler suit or a dress, jeans or boots or trainers, shirt hair, long hair or no hair, make up or not, be a welder or a footballer or a nurse. Anything!!!

its TRA who are wedded to gender stereotypes, they're the ones who think dress + long hair + head tilt = women. In fact several TRA have said they deserve womanhood because they work harder at performing femininity than women do

None of the trans people I know believe in a gender binary, they literally oppose the existence of a gender binary! Have you ever known a trans person?!

If gender is a spectrum (which seemingly we all agree it is) then it is possible to identify at either end of that spectrum ('man/woman') or anywhere in the middle. If you agree that gender is fluid, why don't you believe that it's possible to fall at the opposite end of the spectrum to the one you were assigned based on your sex?

I presume you are accepting of non-binary people and their preferred pronouns?

”have you ever met a trans person?”

yes, yes we have! In fact some ppl here are trans!

you should check your assumptions

If gender is a spectrum (which seemingly we all agree it is)

When did we agree to that?

If gender is a spectrum (which seemingly we all agree it is) then it is possible to identify at either end of that spectrum ('man/woman') or anywhere in the middle. If you agree that gender is fluid, why don't you believe that it's possible to fall at the opposite end of the spectrum to the one you were assigned based on your sex?

Nah, I think I'll take the "gender isn't real" option.

Sex is real. What you call gender might be better described as - let me think about this - "personality".

I am saying that we can't excavate any skeleton and say with certainty how it identified. But when there's evidence that a 'female' skeleton lived as a 'man', why would you dismiss that evidence altogether?

What evidence? Male skeletons are found buried with bangles and brooches, but nobody claims this to be evidence that he lived as a woman. Why should a female skeleton being buried with a sword be considered as evidence she lived as a man?

So who assigns these sexes? If sex is only assigned at birth, are radiographers lying when they tell parents what sex their child is at an ultrasound?

gender is fluid cos it’s a load of made up bollocks and changes constantly. Sex is fixed and immutable. Gender should be destroyed. Rather than saying girls like this, boys like thst, maybe we should encourage kids to like whatever they like whichever sex they are.

non binary is complete and utter wankery.
hth ☺️

Are you Protestant or Catholic?

Neither. I'm an atheist.

But are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?

I think the idea is that sex is like the Hogwarts sorting hat, only midwives have a defective one that means some kids get assigned to the wrong house.

Spring is making an awful lot of assumptions there.

A lack of proof appears to be a running theme.

they really, really don't

What I don’t get is, can transpeople not sue the midwives and doctors for wrongful assignment? I would love to see those cases.

If gender is a spectrum (which seemingly we all agree it is)

Ha ha, nope. Don't try and slide that one in!

If you agree that gender is fluid

Yeah, we don't. Are you new here? Trying to trip us up with your oopsies and unarguable 'logic'?

Gender is not sex. Gender is pretendy. Sex in immutable. (Yes, even "intersex", which is DSDs.)

Oh and another thing. If gender is fluid, and can change surely it’s better to base laws etc on sex, which is fixed.

Based on gendered cultural behaviours and conventions of the time!! I've already talked about examples from history where men and women had similar roles, both fought with swords, etc. A female burial might include a sword!! But there might be other features of a female burial that distinguishes it from a male one. With this is mind, when (rarely) female bodies have been given male burials, it is possible that they were regarded as male by their society.

I think you are significantly overestimating the amount of concrete knowledge we have about Neolithic society here! As well as how hard it can be to sex a skeleton if you can’t extract DNA (sometimes it is clear, sometimes it actually isn’t - I have an MSc in osteo-archeology).

We aren’t even clear if Viking Shield Maidens were actually real or just made up for the Eddas, and there is a lot more contemporaneous documentation of Viking life than there is of Neolithic societies.

man / woman refers to sex (which is binary incidentally)

if you want to talk about gender you could use masculine / feminine I suppose. I don't really care about gender. if you want to say it's spectrum then knock yourself out.

I've been polite in this thread and not at all antagonistic? Not sure where your hostility is coming from - can't people with different views have a productive conversation? Or do you want this site to be an echochamber?

The comment about 'gender as a spectrum' came from GC people on this thread who have said that's what they believe!! Are you going to challenge them too? I didn't pluck it out of nowhere 😂

If archaeologists and historians have previously declared that warrior was a male position but we're now discovering that a lot of warrior skeletons were actually female this could be explained by either

These women had a male gender/were trans

Or

The archaeologists and historians were wrong about warrior being a male position and actually women were commonly warriors