Stephen Fry - What a repulsive, condescending misogynistic turd

[Absentmindedsmile]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14820209/Harry-Potter-narrator-Stephen-Fry-turns-JK-Rowling-TERFs.html

Yuk.

This assumes that at the point of arguing for their continued inclusion Semenya was too stupid to know that they were in fact biologically male. Regardless of how they had been raised

No. It isn’t.

It is fucking dismissive to try to frame that as ‘day to day life’. And to demonise people who use correct sex terms to describe those male athletes.

The lack of symmetry is very stark.

Gender - she identifies in gender as a woman!

Biologically she is male, but she was assigned female at birth so her gender identity is not black and white!

It's not a hard concept to get for anyone who's not being deliberately dishonest and obfuscatory.

He doesn't though. Outside of running he lives as the man he is

No it says that she felt she belonged in the women's category. The complexities of her case were for the experts and CAS panelists to determine.

So the majority of Transwomen are men because they were raised as boys?

RMW and IW will be thrilled by that news. As will big Colin and Fred.

And the rest of us have the right to point out that it is a man arguing for his “right” to compete against women, and therefore any criticism of his decision to fight for him to be able to compete against women is entirely valid. Don’t want the public criticism? Don’t publicly try and force people into believing a falsehood. Want dignity? Have some decency to the women you’re mistreating.

You seem to be arguing that a man should be able to be publicly able to state his case for competing against women but be shielded from any criticism of such. In a word, no.

In two words, fuck that.

Either Semenya knew they were male and therefore also knew they shouldn't be in a category for female athletes, regardless of how 'she felt', or Semenya was too stupid to know they were male.

Stupid or a cheat, it's quite the choice

I don’t think anyone has a problem with a male person identifying as “woman” gender in how they present.

As long as it’s quite clear that where situations are sex-divided for safety/fairness/privacy, this person doesn’t start claiming they are actually female.

I think you have been so busy conflating race issues and accusing everyone here of not understanding the black experience that any sort of sensible discussion has been impossible.

Transwomen are biological males. Their gender identity is complex in a different way to Ms Semenya's. But their gender identity should not compromise the protection of categories and spaces for biological females.

That said, I do not purposefully misgender because I get no joy from being intentionally unkind.

Grey rock the nutters.

Stephen Fry is a pompous twat.

And you’re also arguing that people who argue for men to be allowed to argue their case unfettered like are the good guys, and people who point out that men are arguing the case to compete against women, like us and JKR, are the bad guys. Again, no. Fuck that.

Anyone who argues men should be allowed to try their best to compete in women’s sport if the rules say so isn’t the good guy here.

It was never a grey area though. It was made to look like a grey area because activists campaigned on the grounds of racism and on the grounds that those male people had a right to dignity above female people.

It was always understood that male people had physical advantages over female people. That was why female athletes were sex tested.

It is a disingenuous argument to say that for a brief period in time the world collectively forgot why male athletes were banned from female sports. It relied on philosophical theories about what a ‘female’ was and revolved around their being brought up as female.

You have used misinformation numerous times on this thread to support your arguments.

There is are a couple of PP’s here where posters have talked about Fry hanging on to JKR’s coat tails, for relevance one assumes.

As another poster stated, her son has no idea who Fry is but does know JKR (Obvs, apparently).

Well he isn’t the first misogynistic male to hang on to JKR’s coat tails for some sort of relevance, and certainly, he won’t be the last! 🤷‍♀️

No I am not arguing that biological men can be biological women.

Clearly you are, because the only possible way to be a woman is biological. Woman is the word for adult human beings who are female, like queen is for cats and vixen is for foxes. Adult. Human. Female.

And yet you keep trying to crowbar Semenya into womanhood.

CS, IK, BB and all the others brought up in this blind alley discussion are male. Male with DSD conditions that only affect males. How they thought of themselves is irrelevant. They are men and therefore cannot participate in things made for women.

If they try to, they are cheating.

Colour doesn’t come into it.

Side note - Ethnicity/country does have a bearing in practice, because DSDs occur at vastly higher frequencies in populations that have a traditional of families intermarrying. Turkey, North Africa, regions of Southern Africa and Pakistan in particular have higher rates of DSDs

So you think that because of ethically wrong rules allowing someone to compete absolves them of choosing to enter a category they should not be competing in?

Do you consider Semenya and Banda to be ethical athletes?

The way I read Fry’s interview is he sees some social currency with jumping on the JKR bashing bandwagon. It’s like he knows the timing is good to cash in on his status as a JKR associate condemning her. It’s narcissistic.

Thank you - I'm glad I'm not the only one. I think the discussion has become quite toxic unfortunately...

And then of course JKR refuting Fry’s stupid anecdote where he says he wasn’t able to say a specific word in the audio book recordings. So she put it in every book. Untrue she confirmed. Agreed - he definitely wouldn’t have liked that 😂😂

Whoosh!

I think JKR would agree that a woman is not defined by looks. But like most people who have even a minimal understanding of the way mammalian animal species have evolved through millennia she would define a woman by her biology.

Chromosomes, gametes, physical attributes, skeletal development, choose any one and it will define a persons sex.

Skin colour and feelings? No, doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Why is gender relevant?

What is gender in your view?

Why should she change what she wrote? To pocket is a perfectly good verb🤣

Men take the piss, women call it out and the discussion gets called 'toxic'.

So sick of that word. It's just another stick to beat women with to try to get them to shut up.

How about this, men stop taking the piss so women don't have to call them out? 🤔

Looks like a copy and paste of a standard complaint I have seen many times before but with a "Find and Replace" KJK for JKR 🤔

Is that both of them together now on the TRA/SocFem Naughty Step in your imagination, sticking pins in voodoo dolls of the most vulnerable and oppressed?