Stephen Fry - What a repulsive, condescending misogynistic turd

[Absentmindedsmile]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14820209/Harry-Potter-narrator-Stephen-Fry-turns-JK-Rowling-TERFs.html

Yuk.

Except I am one of those GC black women - just not in the way you, JKR or most of the mumsnet board is.

I think Christmasmorale is a bot. Does Mumsnet have a way to establish this?

🙄you know the rules- report me.

Saying that a man is a woman because he was raised as one is contrary to the fundamental premise of GC, and indeed reality.

You are arguing that men can be women, while claiming to be GC, and that we are the racist ones for not accepting that a black man is a woman while you insist that he is. You'll have reasons for pushing such astounding falsehoods, and we can only guess as to what those are.

anyone thiink @Christmasmorale is a TRA trying to legitimise their views by claiming to be GC whilst spouting views which no GC woman shares?

“There's nothing private about your sex when you wish to enter a sex specific space. He was competing as a woman, it's in the public interest, as well as the interests of fairness and safety, that people know he isn't a woman.”

Well put.

It isn't GC to think that noticing people's sex is wrong and indeed racist. It's harmful and regressive.

I just don't understand why you are arguing with women who are defending women's sports?

The only person who has brought looks into the discussion is you.

If you consider that the males you are defending knew they were male and continued to compete, where is your anger? They are utterly taking the piss out of women and black women in particular.

That was a VERY short flounce 😆

Unfortunately using racism accusations to shut down conversations has been very successful for the past decade ...

No I am not arguing that biological men can be biological women.

But I am saying that the lived experience of a biological male assigned medically as a female at birth, and raised as such, is one of the many instances where gender and biological sex may not line up.

Where biological sex distinctions need to be respected (i.e. sport categories), this gender difference should not override protection of biological women. But in day to day life I have nothing against a biological man who was raised as a girl, identifying as a woman in gender (i.e. there are many nuances to this discourse - and we can respect all while still protecting biological female's spaces).

So you agree with JK Rowling! That's nice.

at 11.57am @Christmasmorale said she was logging off this thread. LOL

Yes, and I don't think it stops there either. Christmas claims to be GC but a man is a woman, that upbringing determines whether someone is male or female but welcomes sex testing for sports, and welcomes sex testing for sports but also says the results of that testing should be kept private because it's nobody's business whether an athlete competing as a woman is a woman.

I don't think we should believe anything this person claims at all.

Just as TRAs accuse women of being the perverts if they don't want men in their spaces, Christmas is trying to claim that we are the racists if we don't accept a black man is a woman.

I wasn't flouncing - it was my ADHD meds trying to tell me to be sensible and not let this pointless thread distract me, and me responding to you now is my ADHD brain unfortunately overriding that as my meds kicked in on this thread.

Quite. It’s tedious and quite transparent. Amongst other things.

Going back to the original point of the post (though I’m not against justifiable de rails), I agree with the PPs who’ve stated that Fry is a well read person of average intelligence. Or - a stupid person’s idea of a particularly intelligent person. He’s proving it more and more.

I don’t think it’s pointless at all. I think you’ve been shining a great deal of sunlight in the right places and I thank you for that!

FFS my first post said she makes very valid points, but her way of doing so is often inflammatory and targets individuals. That is what I disagree with!! That some of the criticism of her is very justified.

But in day to day life I have nothing against a biological man who was raised as a girl

Winning gold medals, prize money in the millions, and awards, all meant for women, isn’t “day to day life” though, is it.

Yes, something a bot might say? Not sure. The arguments are a bit strange - as if designed to goad and derail rather than be constructive or genuinely engage. But could be wrong. Not sure how the mods would know either unless they have systems?

You literally said "Caster is a woman because she was raised as one."

He's not. He's a man who was mistaken for a girl at birth. He's always been male.

It's not a hard concept to get for anyone who's not being deliberately dishonest and obfuscatory.

And then you used male athletes that choose to compete in female sports events as your examples of the individuals she ‘attacks’.

So you choose to support male people who are in effect abusing female athletes when you have demonised her as ‘attacking’ individuals. Did you even once stop and think about this aspect?

She had a right to argue for maintaining her status in what was a grey area at the time. And she lost. That's ok - she wasn't wrong but operating in the category for her at a time. Humans have a right to fight against action affecting them directly, but governing bodies of sport have a responsibility to make decisions and introduce policies that protect the sex categories while affording dignity to the individuals affected.

You still seem to think these individuals somehow had no idea of their sex before coming to world stage sports.

Of course they did. That was the entire point.

They are cheats and deserve calling out. And that they continue to fudge the matter by hiding behind black women is disgusting.

🙄 like I said - report me...