Stephen Fry - What a repulsive, condescending misogynistic turd

[Absentmindedsmile]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14820209/Harry-Potter-narrator-Stephen-Fry-turns-JK-Rowling-TERFs.html

Yuk.

Caster is a woman because she was raised as such. Even JKR would agree with me that a woman is not defined by looks. Black women come in all forms, and there are black women who do look like Ms Semenya.

Looks should be taken out of the picture and standardised sex testing implemented, which we agree on. But until then, the eyesight test will allow people's racial biases to play out and disprortionately harm non-white athletes.

Barbra Bandra is a man.

Yet again, you are the only person here arguing that these men are women.

It's not because they are black. It's not because of their 'masculine looks'. It is because they are men.

I'm going to assume this interesting diversion is the tras frantically trying to find the slightest evidence to support Fry's lies about JKR being a big meany.

This is the best they've found. Tweets about people who aren't even trans. They really like wearing other people's oppression. And pretty thin gruel at that.

Surely she is just looking at a man and saying 'it is a man' not 'targeting non white women'.

Why are you so keen for men to be able to carry on punching women [white.or non white] in the face and in the back of the head?

I don't get it? What made you think that men punching any women is a good thing?

yeah but when you’re losing an argument, the race card might have to be the only card you have left

Understanding the body cues of masculinised male people is what she is referring to.

Do you actually believe that people really cannot tell when a person's body has been through male puberty reliably well? You are using overused accusations here.

Are there any other male people with DSDs that you would like to defend who are harming female people? Can I suggest that you do some research on them before you mention them?

So what you are saying, basically, is that white men can compete (by stealth) in female sports because they're so feminine that no-one notices they're not actually women and they get away with it, but when black men try to compete in female sports, people do notice and that's racist?

Again: Laurel Hubbard and Lia Thomas.

So we are doing well on the bingo card

JK is a bigot
Force teaming black people with trans
Bigger issues for women
Only a small number of people
Intersex people

This is not proven. She was assigned female at birth and raised as a women. She has higher testosterone levels than the threshold, and refused to take drugs to suppress her natural hormonal balance. That's as far as we know. Her medical tests should be played out in private.

The wider argument about sex and sport should be done publicly without reference to individuals. I am all for standardised sex testing so that witch hunts against minority individuals are avoided in future. There should be no place for that in sport or society.

That is my point about JKR attacking and making the discourse about individuals - it causes real harm and has racist undertones. The discussion can be had about what policies could avoid the situation in the first place.

Again, you are ignoring that there is just as much evidence out there that Semenya knew they were male and were being 'raised' as a male person.

"But until then, the eyesight test will allow people's racial biases to play out and disprortionately harm non-white athletes."

Great. And are you out there campaigning for sex testing to be reintroduced then? That would be great to hear.

Female people do NOT have to reduce their testosterone. This is a very common false argument that female people have to lower their testosterone levels. No. They do not.

You have just confirmed that you understand that Banda is a male person.

"The discussion can be had about what policies could avoid the situation in the first place."

The discussion has been attempted for decades! And silenced due to accusations of racism and transphobia. Just like you are doing right here.

Caster Semenya is a man. Unequivocally. Only men can have 5 alpha reductase deficiency.

You do realise that there is no crossover between female and male levels of testosterone don't you?

So a person can be a woman for some purposes but not others? How does that work?

A transwoman can be a real woman in the toilet but not in the rape crisis centre? They can be a woman in darts but not swimming? What about jobs deemed to be for women only? Do we allow Transwomen to be on women only shortlists?

I actually think that is far more discriminatory and actually cruel than just the simple stance of wear what you want, call yourself whatever you like but you cannot change sex or expect he whole of society to bend itself out of shape so as not to upset you.

Barbra Banda isn’t a female footballer. Banda has also failed sex testing before.

And Stephen Fry is a man. And a sexist misogynist one at that. And cowardly. “Do it to Julia!” he’s saying.

Yes, I do advocate for sex tests to be introduced. This is a discourse that by it's nature should be had without attacking and referring to individual cases. The case for equal treatment of all athletes regardless of sex or race would avoid the current situation.

The cheek swab tests are more advanced and provide conclusive results compared with previous the sex testing that was abolished.

No it fucking doesn’t, that is a massive massive stretch.

She is talking about trans women looking male and this being readily perceptible especially in real life rather than a filtered photo. Which most of them do. Especially to women.

BB and CS look male because they are male with a DSD.

This has nothing to do with “applying white standards of beauty to black women.” in this instance.

Black women look female, same as white women, brown women and women of any coloured skin.

If Banda is female, why is the testosterone level above threshold? What could cause that?

There is no overlap between female and male testosterone levels , unless that female athlete is so gravely ill which would mean they had a tumour and would not be competing in elite sports events.

Please stop spreading misinformation!

TESTOSTERONE LEVEL CHART - NORMAL FEMALE RANGE / PCOS RANGE / NORMAL MALE RANGE

This is the chart was made using information from the Handelsman et al 2018 paper below.

The 'Caster Semenya' line refers to what the IOC had specified that Semenya and others needed to suppress their testosterone levels down to, resulting in Semenya trying to overturn this at CAS.

Semenya was noted in that CAS case to have the difference in sex development categorised as 5-ARD and had testosterone levels of around 21 nmol/L.

The Hubbard line was the testosterone level that males with transgender identities had to suppress to for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics.

This is tweet where you can find the chart.

https://x.com/rorybowman/status/1819232725175620084

This is the study

Circulating Testosterone as the Hormonal Basis of Sex Differences in Athletic Performance

David J Handelsman, Angelica L Hirschberg, Stephane Bermon
Published: 13 July 2018

https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/39/5/803/5052770?login=false

Absolutely. The only thing making that level of testosterone is testicles. It doesn’t appear by fucking magic.

Caster is a woman because she was raised as such.

Absurd and untrue. He is a man because he is an adult human of the reproductive sex class capable of producing sperm, which he does indeed do. The fact that a mistake was made at his birth and he was raised and socialised in the way females are makes no difference to his sex class. He was actually checked very often at school because he outperformed the girls so much that the teachers doubted he was female, which indeed he is not.

Semenya would be a man if he'd been born in a coma and remained in one his whole life, never raised or socialised at all. He'd be a man if he was dead. And I'd be a woman under both those circumstances.

But until then, the eyesight test will allow people's racial biases to play out and disprortionately harm non-white athletes.

Non white female athletes are harmed when men take their opportunities and medals and they're gaslit over it.

I don't believe you care about racism against black women who are compared to men. You're hell bent on calling a black man a woman. There's a deep dishonesty going on here.

She very well may be DSD - but my point is that this should not be a public conversation. It's a private medical matter.

The public discourse should focus on how we categorise and test for sex in sport so that everyone is treated equally and fairly.

The men you are advocating for have failed these sex tests. And get continue to fudge the matter.

Some might think that they are taking advantage of the situation and grifting on the ridiculous trope that black women look like men.

And you're helping them out.

The people who lost out most from Semenya and Banda are black women.
When JKR objects to these two men, it's those women she is standing up for. You have absolutely no grounds to call her racist. It's them being male she objects to, and it's black women and girls she is defending.
Where is your sympathy for the women and girls losing out on sporting opportunities in South Africa and Zambia because male players are taking their spaces? Where is your sympathy for those black women and girls? They are invisible.
This is what Kimberley Krenshaw was actually talking about when she coined the term intersectionality. Yet once again, that term has become so corrupted by people prioritising men, it's being used to sideline the very people it was meant to give a voice to.