Reflections on Trans Arguments

[LimeFinch]

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

Maybe it needs to be a collective to add up to a reasonable amount of functioning braincells. Not that I'm saying that worked.

I assume they is the gender Borg hence the we - probably

What do you want an individual view point on?

It's quite simple, LimeFinch, just use the gents.

If you're not sure which one that is, ask your mum.

Lechiffre was referring to Limey.

That was directed at @LimeFinch
I'm just wondering why they needed to form a collective to make an account. It seems weird.

Ha, have you only just noticed that? 99.9% of threads are anti trans. That is not feminism, if it was there would be a range of important subjects being discussed.

you have to wonder about people coming onto the sex and gender board to moan they're not talking about something else entirely

Oh that's a blinder @lechiffre55 , think i might have to steal your "cockettish" 👏

Apologies @lechiffre55 that’ll teach me to react without reading the whole thread!

Do you at least acknowledge that there is a sound intellectual argument for gender sceptical views? This divide is not going to narrow without respectful, nuanced argument from both sides. I find your post repellently patronising and superior, and, from a GC viewpoint, linking to arguments made from within the self-referential world and captured institutions of transgenderism.

Do better. The world is bigger.

Na. More likely Harry breaking all the royal protocols about political subjects.

You do realise if you genuinely want to share information you don't start by being derogatory to people? It triggers them to think badly of you and then they don't trust what you have to say - credible or not.

People with valid things to say keep their language balanced.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!

Although he is, ahem, cavalier.

What a load of trans propaganda bollocks.
Humans can't change sex.
Men, no matter how they identify, should not be in women's private spaces.
No woman is cis - the word is real if you need to differentiate between a transwomen (biological man) and a real woman. Hence the change in terminology with a lot more people going with trans identified man, it's much more clear since a man is no sort of woman.
No man belongs in female sport, they have their own category. Destroying your body through wrong sex hormones doesn't justify colonisation of the female sports category.

I’m still three pages off the end of the thread, so potentially this may now have been said several times, but logically, if this is a they/them then we is probably appropriate.

Nah. A they/ them would still use me rather than us. It’s more than one person.

I've seen a they/them using we/us before. It reads very weirdly and makes them seem either schizophrenic or unwilling to own the words they're saying.

I have a funny image in my mind of a bunch of TRAs going nuts on discord deciding whose turn it is to log into their joint Mumsnet account and read all the mean words ( or not as the case may be).

Ha, yeah!

Disingenuous as always!

'We' could be one person trying to make himself sound important. The WizardingNews account on Twitter does that. It's one bloke pretending to be an organisation.

And that mad SEENPolice guy.

Doesn't Pedro Pascal tweet in the third person? You don't think...🤔

The new Fantastic Four film looks rubbish.

Thats awesome 😍

Beetle, I've said it before, but we need a third volume of Under the Duvet of Darkness....😁

Meanwhile, back over in the rational world, the number of private, positive reactions to the OP perfectly satisfy us that this thread, and the statements provided - and backed up - at the outset, have merit

yeah yeah yeah 😒