Reflections on Trans Arguments

[LimeFinch]

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

Suspiciously similar posters have boasted about it before, see screenshot in this relevant thread. And heed the advice about dodgy links.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5336710-google-docs-in-troll-posts?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

I assumed the OP is a trans-identified man, with noooooo idea about what life as a woman is really like. But he wants to tell us all about it, becoz - y'know, we is just little women who know nuthin'

I think we had to expect shit like this.

The cult is crashing and burning in real time, and its members are not going to go down without a ‘fight’. It’s just a bit humiliating for them that this ‘fight’ consists of regurgitating ‘points’ that have already been disproved, multiple times over a number of years, and in court. And regurgitating these points at a group of women who probably know more about the history and intricacies of this issue than almost anyone else I can think of. Women whose professional and personal lives have given them decades of experience and wisdom. Who have patiently (and sometimes not so patiently, understandably) argued against the OP’s ‘points’ again and again and again on these boards. Thank you amazing and wonderful women of MN.

Let’s just smile and wave as their ship goes down. Yes it feels a bit awkward having to witness the rantings of humiliated men, but we will bear it- we’ve been through much worse. Most of us have experience of managing the behaviour of raging toddlers and this is no different. So I’m going to leave them to it and enjoy the sunlight, in both senses. ☀️

Very good point @Waitingfordoggo

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/16W9ApfA2a/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Lime not managed to stay within site guidelines?

behold my shocked face

Or did he crash the servers, due to an over extended word count?

There once was a poster called LimeFinch
Who thought it would be a cinch
To educate wims
With lists of things
That he obviously read with his eyes scrinch(ed)

(Forgive me, it's 32.5 degrees in here...)

Anyone remember the thread when there was clearly a cabal of idiots working together and they dropped the ball when they fucked up and replied with the wrong username.

That was a funny one!

Why 'we'? Care to explain that?

Neopronoun?

I assume they are the gender Borg hence the we

@LimeFinch
Yes. Why we? Who is we? A subreddit?
You knew what this particular forum on MN was, that why you chose it.
Did you have any purpose beyond trolling? Literally what was your purpose?

I think I saw Cabal of Idiots at Brixton Academy

A bit rich from people who accuse GC posters of being about 6 in number with multiple usernames!

So you post a list of "evidence" (and insults), and don't bother reading the genuine rebuttals - then post to say "HA you don't want to reply to my points", rather than engaging in good faith argument with those who actually took the time to reply to your points (in spite of all the times we've had to do this in the past). Then say we're all an anti-trans cult.

Assimilation?

The royal we?

In for a penny, in for a pound - if you're identifying as a woman it might as well be the one in the top job.

Could it be King Charles? Is it the royal we?

Are you not capable as individuals of making an argument so you need to clump together as a collective to achieve whatever your goal was?

lol, that was lime saying they had indeed stayed within guidelines, whilst swerving straight out of them 😁. Again.

Are those guidelines in the room with you now, lime?

Just a couple for Limey

We repeat that men can’t be women because people can’t change sex. But thanks for the patronising scold, it’s a unique take, because we have absolutely never been scolded on here by people who struggle with facts and biology.