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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Good Law Project's latest claim - fact check?

1000 replies

teawamutu · 17/06/2025 18:14

I'm sure there must be some arrant bollocks in here somewhere, because Jolyon.

But is there anything worrying in this?

goodlawproject.org/ehrc-backs-down-on-single-sex-toilets/

OP posts:
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Tandora · 19/06/2025 17:56

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/06/2025 17:54

Loads!

And how do you propose calculating “loads” as a proportion of the total number of people you’ve encountered?

teawamutu · 19/06/2025 17:57

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 17:51

For the benefit of the class, this is what he wrote:

Every media report of a JK Rowling proxy threatening to sue a body that won't engage in performative cruelty to trans people should include this heading from the Supreme Court decision.

But, because the outlets are clueless or bigoted, they never do.

Nice to have some word salad on this hot day.

He's completely hysterical now.

Saw him out on the street a few weeks ago and he looked like he's melting, too.

All very weird and more than a bit creepy.

OP posts:
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/06/2025 17:58

Tandora · 19/06/2025 17:55

Again. Your claims that gender critical feminism is the only type of feminism is demonstrably false both in theory and activism.

I didn't say that gender critical feminism is the only type of feminism.

I said that feminism which centres female people is the only type of feminism.

For what it's worth, though, feminism is inherently gender critical, because gender is a load of sexist bullshit. It's a system to enable the oppression of the female sex.

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 17:59

Back to Jolyon - he seems to be using some of the money he grifted raised to support the funding of a journalist at Queer AF:

Thanks to their support, we have launched the recruitment process to hire a part-time lead investigative journalist, ensuring QueerAF can independently deliver regular, exclusive investigations in our free weekly newsletter.

https://www.wearequeeraf.com/queeraf-and-good-law-project-partner-to-deliver-lgbtqia-investigative-journalism/

QueerAF and Good Law Project partner to deliver LGBTQIA+ investigative journalism

Information is a tool for liberation – investigative journalism is the lifeblood of LGBTQIA+ activism

https://www.wearequeeraf.com/queeraf-and-good-law-project-partner-to-deliver-lgbtqia-investigative-journalism/

Cornishpotato · 19/06/2025 17:59

Tandora · 19/06/2025 08:30

If there was only one, and entirely obvious way, to interpret and elaborate the law, we wouldn't need guidance now would we?

I understand that accepting other people are different to you or hold different opinions to you may not be a strong suit, but surely you can at least understand the above basic point?

There's statutory guidance for many laws. Equal pay being one I use regularly.

Do you also have a problem with equal pay law as they have produced guidance for it?

Or is it just the thing men want?

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 18:00

teawamutu · 19/06/2025 17:57

He's completely hysterical now.

Saw him out on the street a few weeks ago and he looked like he's melting, too.

All very weird and more than a bit creepy.

Testerical, you mean! 😄

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/06/2025 18:01

Tandora · 19/06/2025 17:56

And how do you propose calculating “loads” as a proportion of the total number of people you’ve encountered?

Tandora, nobody even knows how many trans people there are in the UK. Stonewall has no idea. The government has no idea. The ONS has no idea. It's not possible to calculate how many trans people there are, let alone how many of them pass.

All I am telling you is that I regularly encounter non passing trans people, and of those trans people who post pictures of themselves online, I'd say that almost none of them do, even in pictures which can be photoshopped. Even poor Jackie Green.

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:02

Cornishpotato · 19/06/2025 17:59

There's statutory guidance for many laws. Equal pay being one I use regularly.

Do you also have a problem with equal pay law as they have produced guidance for it?

Or is it just the thing men want?

baffled. To be clear I do not have a problem with legal guidance as a general rule 😂.

I have a problem with the way the EHRC has interpreted the SC ruling in their draft guidance and I do not believe it will stand. (Although people are so nuts these days, you never know).

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:03

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/06/2025 18:01

Tandora, nobody even knows how many trans people there are in the UK. Stonewall has no idea. The government has no idea. The ONS has no idea. It's not possible to calculate how many trans people there are, let alone how many of them pass.

All I am telling you is that I regularly encounter non passing trans people, and of those trans people who post pictures of themselves online, I'd say that almost none of them do, even in pictures which can be photoshopped. Even poor Jackie Green.

Right so your statement was entirely made up / informed by prejudice and also nonsensical .

spannasaurus · 19/06/2025 18:04

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 17:49

Let's see how he's doing today, shall we?

(I don't know who the poster Norman Shaw is, but am astonished that Jolyone hasn't blocked him yet 😆 It can be only time)

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3lrxtefdgc227

I can't work out what point he's trying to make by saying that the supreme court heading should be included. The section is about why the ruling is not a disadvantage to trans people

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/06/2025 18:04

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:02

baffled. To be clear I do not have a problem with legal guidance as a general rule 😂.

I have a problem with the way the EHRC has interpreted the SC ruling in their draft guidance and I do not believe it will stand. (Although people are so nuts these days, you never know).

The EHRC have said the same thing the Supreme Court said, only in terms they think idiots will understand.

Unfortunately...

Cornishpotato · 19/06/2025 18:04

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:02

baffled. To be clear I do not have a problem with legal guidance as a general rule 😂.

I have a problem with the way the EHRC has interpreted the SC ruling in their draft guidance and I do not believe it will stand. (Although people are so nuts these days, you never know).

So you are walking back that one then.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/06/2025 18:05

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:03

Right so your statement was entirely made up / informed by prejudice and also nonsensical .

Edited

No, I said I regularly clock non passing trans people and I don't believe there can be enough trans people in the population for most of them to be escaping my attention.

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:05

Cornishpotato · 19/06/2025 18:04

So you are walking back that one then.

Eh? Baffled.

MarieDeGournay · 19/06/2025 18:06

Tandora · 19/06/2025 17:26

I think they’ll just have fewer toilets. Yes in the interim the disabled will become the unisex I guess. This is already happening where trans people are having the indignity of being called into HR and instructed on using disabled facilities across the other side of building etc.

In the longer term (if this lasts that long which actually I don’t think it will) segregated provision will be a thing of the past. Probably that is inevitable now anyway regardless of when this guidance falls.

Edited

Seriously, your main concern about able-bodied trans people using the disabled toilet is that it is an indignity for the trans person?

Why are you not outraged as I am that accessible facilities which disabled people campaigned for for decades are being handed over for use by some able-bodied people, like some kind of consolation prize?

Surely a trans person who had any respect for marginalised minorities like people with disabilities, if faced with the prospect of using the toilet designated for their sex OR using the toilet designated for people with disabilities who physically need an adapted toilet, would conclude that on balance, the physical needs of disabled people are more important than gendered preferences, and they would show their respect for disabled people's rights by not using the accessible toilet.

And by pointing out to HR that disabled people's rights and spaces are not to be handed out to able-bodied people, for any reason!

There is nothing physically preventing trans people from using the toilet designated for their sex, which is not the case with disabled people who physically need the toilets designated for them.

teawamutu · 19/06/2025 18:07

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 18:05

Was wondering about Jolyon splashing the cash to someone else. Now I get it:

We'll release more in-depth, accessible explainers of what's happening in the courts.

So this is a way for Jolyon to buy favourable coverage.

https://bsky.app/profile/wearequeeraf.com/post/3lrxvf7d3w22j

Of course! It's his own Erin in the Morning.

Fiction, but make it newsy.

OP posts:
Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:09

MarieDeGournay · 19/06/2025 18:06

Seriously, your main concern about able-bodied trans people using the disabled toilet is that it is an indignity for the trans person?

Why are you not outraged as I am that accessible facilities which disabled people campaigned for for decades are being handed over for use by some able-bodied people, like some kind of consolation prize?

Surely a trans person who had any respect for marginalised minorities like people with disabilities, if faced with the prospect of using the toilet designated for their sex OR using the toilet designated for people with disabilities who physically need an adapted toilet, would conclude that on balance, the physical needs of disabled people are more important than gendered preferences, and they would show their respect for disabled people's rights by not using the accessible toilet.

And by pointing out to HR that disabled people's rights and spaces are not to be handed out to able-bodied people, for any reason!

There is nothing physically preventing trans people from using the toilet designated for their sex, which is not the case with disabled people who physically need the toilets designated for them.

Yes it’s a problem for disabled people.

But are you seriously blaming this on trans people, and suggestion that a trans woman- now banned from the female loos - should chose to walk into the men’s over the private disabled loo?

Is this really what you believe?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/06/2025 18:09

MarieDeGournay · 19/06/2025 18:06

Seriously, your main concern about able-bodied trans people using the disabled toilet is that it is an indignity for the trans person?

Why are you not outraged as I am that accessible facilities which disabled people campaigned for for decades are being handed over for use by some able-bodied people, like some kind of consolation prize?

Surely a trans person who had any respect for marginalised minorities like people with disabilities, if faced with the prospect of using the toilet designated for their sex OR using the toilet designated for people with disabilities who physically need an adapted toilet, would conclude that on balance, the physical needs of disabled people are more important than gendered preferences, and they would show their respect for disabled people's rights by not using the accessible toilet.

And by pointing out to HR that disabled people's rights and spaces are not to be handed out to able-bodied people, for any reason!

There is nothing physically preventing trans people from using the toilet designated for their sex, which is not the case with disabled people who physically need the toilets designated for them.

I think we know the answer to this.

Because only trans people matter.

Tandora is incapable of seeing things from any perspective other than "is it what trans people want?"

Cornishpotato · 19/06/2025 18:12

Tandora · 19/06/2025 17:47

Asking women to share their toilets with the occasional trans woman, (as has always been the status quo), is of course absolutely not , in no way remotely, reasonably comparable to asking a woman to walk into the men’s toilets. Which is why when you go out and about your day there is no question about whether you will use the women or the men’s in the interests of your safety and dignity, despite the fact that trans women use them too.

And On that “eff off” note …..(sorry edit this was in response to @DiamondThrone telling me to eff off)

I recommend you all this podcast: interesting discussion of the toxicity of social media and the way people communicate nowadays.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000713219594

Edited

Couple of fellas to tell us off eh?

No thanks.

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:14

Cornishpotato · 19/06/2025 18:12

Couple of fellas to tell us off eh?

No thanks.

Nope. If anything the person they are telling off is me .

Cornishpotato · 19/06/2025 18:14

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:05

Eh? Baffled.

It's your cognitive dissonance that's causing your bafflement.
It's quite entertaining though.

MyAmpleSheep · 19/06/2025 18:15

Tandora · 19/06/2025 17:40

You think toilets should be labelled “gender reassignment”? And this would be compatible with the dignity of trans people; because outing someone as having undergone gender reassignment is no biggy?

I still want to know why being "outed" as transgender is such a big deal. I ask again - is identifying as trans something to be ashamed of?

potpourree · 19/06/2025 18:15

Tandora · 19/06/2025 16:51

I mean fewer toilets that are labelled “men”, “women”, “male” “female”, have a symbol on them designating they are for one or other sex etc.

Instead providers will offer services that are open to everyone.

Im not going to get drawn into a semantic argument with you about the use of language because after all what on earth is the point? I’m not going to agree with your use of language and you are not going to agree with mine. What is important is that we find ways to communicate.

OK, so here you were using 'women' to mean 'female-sex'. Yet you also argue that being female is not a requirement to be a woman.

It's not "semantic" or 'about the use of language' - it's communicating what you mean in a consistent way. I honestly can't understand your point when you say woman to mean 'exclusively female' in one sentence, and 'male or female' in another.

And again - it's literally the definition of transgender - that there is biological sex, and there are gender identities, and they are different. It's on the Stonewall website, it's everywhere.

I genuinely want to know if you can understand this, or if you dismiss sex and gender identity as being the same thing?

I know you will just casually call me a liar, but I am speaking the truth: I am trying to understand where you're coming from but if I take what you say literally or assume you are using a word to mean the same thing each time you say it, your statements will often be provably false. I'm trying to make them make sense because you seem insistent that you have some argument or position - I just can't quite work out what it is.

Tandora · 19/06/2025 18:16

Cornishpotato · 19/06/2025 18:14

It's your cognitive dissonance that's causing your bafflement.
It's quite entertaining though.

You seemed to have completely misunderstood what I wrote and somehow interpreted it as me having a go at the concept of guidance.

Both baffling and entertaining indeed.

Anyways.

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