Good Law Project's latest claim - fact check?

[teawamutu]

I'm sure there must be some arrant bollocks in here somewhere, because Jolyon.

But is there anything worrying in this?

goodlawproject.org/ehrc-backs-down-on-single-sex-toilets/

JM/GLP do not stand any chance of changing the SC ruling. The SC ruling is clear, and so their lobbying to obfuscate will fail.

As Helen Joyce highlighted, parents who went all in to support their child’s transition are the Japanese soldiers of the movement. We can expect JM to keep going and to keep denying facts, laws and material reality. Meanwhile, the SC ruling will bed in, women will be able to have female only services, and alternative solutions will be found for trans women

Does anyone remember a thread where an employee of a Government/Council type workplace came in one day to find ALL the toilets had been changed to unisex, albeit with lockable doors and sinks in each cubicle? I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that it was legal to do this.

This one maybe? I don't think it was all the toilets but some. Wasn't a roaring success. I remember it being discussed here but can't find the thread, when I googled it this came up:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6065075/Female-Home-Office-employees-refusing-use-new-36-000-gender-neutral-toilets.html

That letter in response to the GLP is a thing of beauty.

My understanding is that it’s a change of wording that clarifies this previous statement “In workplaces, it is compulsory to provide sufficient single-sex toilets….” which was already being interpreted by employers with real world consequences for trans people. They have clarified that workplaces don’t need to provide single sex toilets, they just need to provide toilets with private cubicles.

Ultimately this is going to be the result of GC obsession with excluding trans people- fewer and fewer spaces for women. The segregation is untenable (as a widespread / universal mandate) so we are just going to end up with gender neutral everything.

Thanks a lot, from a feminist who happens to appreciate women’s spaces and actually doesn’t like going into facilities with cis men even if I can shut a private cubicle door. This is on all of you. 👍🏻👏🏻

Ultimately this is going to be the result of GC obsession with excluding trans people- fewer and fewer spaces for women.
No, it's the result of (some) men's inability to accept a no for an answer.

Yeah you need to read the response. There is no change of law.

Oh, and feminists don’t say cis - your masked slipped a bit there.

You need to read my post - I didn’t say there was a change of law.

I said it was a clarification of this wording from the guidance that was already being interpreted by employers with real world consequences for trans people:

“In workplaces, it is compulsory to provide sufficient single-sex toilets….”

They have clarified that workplaces don’t need to provide single sex toilets, they just need to provide toilets with private cubicles.
Which has indeed always been the law.

Most feminists absolutely say “cis”. You don’t own feminism and thank god for that

I hardly know anyone who uses the word "cis" and I would absolutely judge someone who did. To me it's a red flag for internalised misogyny and low intelligence.

Feminism is for and about female people. The clue is in the word. Anyone who is not making female people their priority is not a feminist. We absolutely do own that.

The thing is, Tandora, when you use so many words to mean the opposite of what they actually mean in reality, such as "woman" to describe a man, or "female" when you mean male, or "feminist" when you mean dick panderer, your insults can also be interpreted to mean the opposite of what you say, and taken as a compliment.

So thank you, Tandora, compliment accepted.

I, however, use words in accordance with their actual meanings, so when I say someone is stupid, it's not a compliment.

They have clarified that workplaces don’t need to provide single sex toilets, they just need to provide toilets with private cubicles.

It's not private cubicles, it's single user lockable rooms that is the allowable alternative (and always was acceptable, there's nothing new here). You still wouldn't be going in anywhere with men because only one user goes in at a time. We're talking something like the loos on an aeroplane or a small cafe - there are just a couple of single user rooms.

I note you wish to continue with the personal mud slinging .

That’s not correct either. They don’t need to provide private cubicles.

Regardless of the configuration, the clarification was of this statement: that was already being interpreted by employers with real world consequences for trans people:

“In workplaces, it is compulsory to provide sufficient single-sex toilets….”

They have clarified that workplaces don’t need to provide single sex toilets, if they provide private toilets with a lockable door .
Which has indeed always been the law.

This will be the consequence of this mass mandated segregation- fewer and fewer spaces for women as more employers will move to this model. Probably resulting in fewer toilets as well due to space.

There are requirements for numbers of toilets to be provided. Based on sex, funnily enough.

Right so I guess employers will be doing that bare minimum

Disagreeing with you isn't mud slinging, Tandora.

We don't have to politely pretend that what you say makes sense if it doesn't.

So your position is that if things are now worse for women, it's women's fault for asking for their existing legal rights to be upheld? Rather than the fault of the people who were infringing women's legal rights for the last fifteen years?

you are very free to disagree with me but play the ball not the player.

That's Tandora's brand of feminism

😂

The player is not prepared to pass the ball and keeps missing the shot. You have to tell the player he’s wrong. Not the ball.

I expect most employers will stick with existing arrangements, which are male and female loos. According to the law. Cheapest, easiest, compliant, and suits almost all staff.

No, what needs to be provided in lieu of single sex facilities is a single occupancy room with an integral basin. Obviously, in larger workplaces this will not be practicable or possible and so communal single sex blocks ( shared access area) will still be the norm.

Thanks a lot, from a feminist who happens to appreciate women’s spaces

They are not women's spaces if they have men in them.
HTH