Trans sibling in law

[Primrose86]

DH's sibling has just come out as a man. She is 26 and autistic, lives at home with mum, spends life on the Internet, got kicked out of school at 16 etc etc She has plans to go overseas and transition in germany where apparently you can get surgeries on the public health system while living with her grandpa. Her mum is fully supportive of this.

How should I react to all this. Should I start referring to him as my brother in law? What usually happens after people come out. I assume they progress to hormones and surgery but honestly based on what I read, Germany is quite resistant to health tourists who never paid in even if they are citizens. Are people really happy identifying as another gender when they wouldn't look like the other gender?

Insurances can vary what they cover but these differences concern the optional stuff and you can choose an insurance that covers certain things (eg some cover homeopathy and some don't) but nobody could be rejected or have their premiums increased for having diabetes or similar. It depends where gender reassignment surgery falls, is it optional or not, the answer to that might have changed with the law changes. When body dysmorphia was considered a mental health issue (and I still consider it such) it would have been covered by the standard insurance.

The are no premiums in the statutory insurance, the contribution is income-based. So everyone pays x% of their income (this is very simplified and sometimes it differs, but it's the basic rule). This is by the way one of the reasons why so many migrants try to get to Germany.
Private insurers require you to declare any preexisting conditions and charge accordingly, but you have to earn over a certain threshold to be able to go private and you cannot change back into the statutory insurance later.

Ah ok that makes sense. So really that's just like the NHS funded through a system that's effectively an extra income tax, like our National Insurance in the UK. The difference being that for us in the UK, people who aren't employed and don't pay the National Insurance are still entitled to the same NHS care as those who pay NI. Do people who aren't employed have a route to opt-in to paying for the statutory insurance even though they don't have an income (eg if they are living on savings or are supported by their family) or are people without jobs required to buy the private option?

Yeah, that's right it's income dependent. There are still basic insurances for like students though. And you don't lose insurance when you become unemployed though I'm not sure who pays for it then. Is that paid via unemployment insurance?

It depends. If you've suddenly become unemployed but have contributed to the system in the past, the state will insure you as long as you register as a job seeker. You can also be registered by a contributing family member (a spouse or a parent). If you've never contributed to the system, you're only entitled to use emergency services. No private insurer will accept you if you cannot prove that you have income above the required threshold. There are different rules for the self-employed.

Has RWM, IW or Sophie Molly thingy put out a call for all men to swarm this thread?

Sigh. You can really tell from the language who’s a man and who’s not here.

@Primrose86 I’ve a very similar situation (I could have written this myself) and the Mum too has gone full “support their transition”. My family know my views on this. Some surgery has happened and at the time when I first heard about it I sent some articles to another close family member, but it really upset him (he’s not a true believer) so I’ve backed off.
Like others have suggested, I’d stand aside a bit. Nothing you can say at this point will really change the cultists’ minds. All you can do is to be there for your SIL when she comes around and sees sense.
The hardest thing I think will be your relationship with your DH’s Mum. She’ll be desperately trying to keep her daughter close so wont hear a thing you say. I hate to say that you need to be quiet but I think you do.

My, since its impossible to change sex only the delusional can support then. I'd think that she is vulnerable and confused and thinks a way out is to say she wants to be treated as a male. She could never truly be one but maybe her current thinking?

I don't live in Germany so don't know the details (I can't move back partly because I have a chronic condition that would make me very expensive to insure - employment based insurances don't take you on any more over a certain age). But I think 'a few shifts' would be more likely to be on a 'minijob' (that's a word) contract, where you don't pay national insurance and don't get insurance. I may be wrong though; if in-law can wrangle some kind of student status, that may come with access to affordable insurance.

The German health system is a lot better resourced than the NHS, and they appear to be very permissive with gender-related interventions (because individual doctors run businesses and it's lucrative). But access is really fucked up. Health insurance has been made compulsory, but the private insurers that people in non-standard job situations depend on are free to charge what they want and exclude preexisting conditions. Policies can cost hundreds a month and still only kick in after the patient has paid 1000s out of pocket.

And it's a total caste system. My mother has private insurance and could get an MRI scan on 24 hours' notice. My friend who has employment-based insurance has to wait several months for things like that.

For your in-law, the main issue is the utter recklessness of doctors who have bought into gender thinking. Mastectomies for under-age girls, hormones from early teens... and there seems to be a rash of 'educational' charities that push sexual orientation, gender and even fetish content on children from primary school age. That's considered progressive, and child protection be damned.

Of course they won't, because they know people can't change sex.

Difficult one OP. I'd be as low contact as possible, for starters.

Minijobs are up to 520€ a month and you remain under whatever insurance you were under before.

Normally nobody works just over mini job hours because suddenly all the deductions kick in (not just 15.5% health insurance but care insurance, unemployment insurance, state pension contributions, reunification contribution, church tax if you haven't actively opted out, which is a faff, and regular income tax whichvyou can claim back at the end of the year if your income for the year is low enough, but that takes time) ... so the employee is left with a huge amount less than on a mini job...

A midi job is also a real thing and the first point at which health insurance kicks in - I think it's 740€ a month but that might be outvof date. On minimum wage that'd be two short days a week (say two 6 hour shifts in a care home or cleaning or in retail or catering...).

For jobs above minimum wage in Germany you generally need locally recognised qualifications - getting qualifications recognised involves bureaucracy and takes time. Many UK qualifications aren't recognised as equivalent but some are.

Getting a job in a hospital obviously requires security checks and qualifications checks, it all takes ages in Germany but is possible. Most entry level jobs in hospitals, care and catering are pretty hard work and not for everyone.

It's all possible but will take a while and be a lot of work, it's certainly not a matter of moving in with a relative and having a non emergency operation a week or a month or a few months later. Everything in Germany takes time and effort...

But she still needs to be registered etc etc. She ought to check this urgently

State funds pay for insurance for people are registered unemployed but not in all circumstances. Anyone who has moved from another country is only eligible under reciprocal arrangements with the country they came from until two years elapse. Anyone not seeking work and living with a working spouse or parent (parents only if unemployed person is under 27 and in education) can be insured with the working spouse/ parent but only if that person has state insurance. If the person is privately insured they are responsible for insuring dependants privately. An adult won't be eligible to be insured with a grandparent.

Everyone is entitled to emergency care, as in the UK.

Asylum seekers have separate arrangements obviously, the exclusions are for "regular" migrants, long term tourism/ visits etc.

You are covered via ALG (dole)

Getting a job in a hospital obviously requires security checks and qualifications checks, it all takes ages in Germany but is possible. Most entry level jobs in hospitals, care and catering are pretty hard work and not for everyone.

"Hospitality" according to OP, so waitressing or similar

Thank you @LadyBracknellsHandbagg .
This is an excellent post, and I shall (if it is ok), refer and quote it often.

Thank you, and please be my guest 😊

'an 18 year old German girl last year who identifies as non-binary, who had both breast removed including nipples by her own gynecologist mother."

Jesus fucking christ almighty.

Tbh after reading rhianan rudd's story, I see the trans thing and far right extremism in teens as two sides of the same coin. Young impressionable often autistic children being groomed online. Rhianan Rudd's facial expressions are identical to my siblings in law.

Those who lean left become trans, those who lean right become far right. My MIL is a communist (not a slur just a statement of fact) so it's natural her daughter would become trans. Worryingly though she is parroting some views about Muslims that the far right is propagating as well. I think she is just drawn to identity politics in general as she wants to feel included.

Could the trans thing be a phase and she may move onto become a far right online armchair warrior esp since the discourse around Muslims is likely to become more heated due to the grooming gangs. Even though the trans thing has apparently been going on in secret for years. Or can she have both views concurrently?!

But that's perhaps the key to understand it. It's not so different from young boys and the manosphere/far right extremism.

Do what you do. If his family are being fully supportive and your boyfriend is then I think you'll find he's not your boyfriend much longer. Tbh it's nothing to do with you. Trans people are not seeking your approval,they just want to live their life's.

Drama queen indeed.

Lives.

If that were true it would be one thing. But in fact they are insisting everyone believe a falsehood and use incorrect language.

Interesting take, this board is full of mothers desperately trying to keep relationships with their children intact after their child is being strongly encouraged to break off contact regardless. It seems as though you haven’t seen any of that?

The other angle on here is women desperately worried about other women and children’s sex based rights and access to single sex services like rape centres, prisons and DV shelters, maybe you missed that too?

You might also have seen parents panicked about their autistic children and family members making permanent decisions about their bodies and future fertility without access to neutral counselling services, perhaps you also missed that.

Or maybe you’re just misinterpreting all of it in order to demonise women, those you seem to be able to identify correctly.

I can't offer any advice but I am concerned that you have more concern for your SiL than does any of her natal family. This seems very sad.

Actually they are not. Trans people never said a word at the supreme court. JK Rowling lives in a nice part of Edinburgh, strangely enough almost next door to the judge in that case. I can't believe a woman who just happened to write a few books, and got very lucky that they were made into films, can cause such a following.

The main characters from these films have all come out in support of transgender people. Alot of fuss made so that folk can go for a shite!

What does it matter what terms they use. Good luck in the loo when you come face to face with a transman, who's drunk and can't wee straight and your next to use the cubicle they come out of! 😂

OP - there is some really crap advice on here from people telling you you can just not use pronouns.

Frankly, you're free to treat your brother in law however you wish. There are obviously plenty on here who will happily burn down relationships due to their devotion to a transphobic viewpoint. They're free to do so.

But please don't be under any illusions that you can just pretend to not engage by not using pronouns. You can obviously decide not to engage in discussion about your BIL's transition - the impact of that is likely to depend on how open he is, how open your relationship is normally etc. If you're normally quite close and discuss the major things happening in your life, and he is happy to or keen to discuss this major thing happening in your life, your reticence will be obvious. Again, you might not mind, but don't go into this thinking you can suddenly just disengage from the major life events of someone close to you without if affecting the relationship. (Obviously this is different if you have a more distant pre-existing relationship anyway).

But regardless of that, no one can avoid using pronouns for someone completely.

Imagine your DH comes home after work and you need to say 'Oh I bumped into John at the train station today. John told me that John is dating a new man. John went out with this guy last week and John seemed totally smitten. I really hope it works out for John.'

If anyone thinks for a second that speaking like that doesn't immediately give away your rejection of John's identity as a man, they're an idiot. Again, you or anyone else is free to reject that identity - just don't be surprised if they are not willing to have a close (or any) relationship with someone who does so. And don't fool yourself that if you contort your syntax and grammar sufficiently your true feelings will silently slip under the radar. They won't.