Trans sibling in law

[Primrose86]

DH's sibling has just come out as a man. She is 26 and autistic, lives at home with mum, spends life on the Internet, got kicked out of school at 16 etc etc She has plans to go overseas and transition in germany where apparently you can get surgeries on the public health system while living with her grandpa. Her mum is fully supportive of this.

How should I react to all this. Should I start referring to him as my brother in law? What usually happens after people come out. I assume they progress to hormones and surgery but honestly based on what I read, Germany is quite resistant to health tourists who never paid in even if they are citizens. Are people really happy identifying as another gender when they wouldn't look like the other gender?

Whatever you think about transitioning, if someone really wants to be called He it seems the kind thing to do.

Is it kind though, really?

I'm not sure it is.

Calling a trans man "he" is unkind to them because it encourages them in their belief that they can escape the negative trappings of womanhood simply by identifying as a man. Real life doesn't work like that.

And calling a trans woman "she" is harmful to all women.

I don't see how logically you could agree that a trans man is a "he" whilst denying that a trans woman is a "she".

Derail you say? I think my irony meter just exploded! Please do list the posts we are allowed to respond to, preferably in alphabetical order, it makes it easier for us to adhere to the diktat.

I agree with TG/Dysphoria not being a choice, but I believe that transitioning is a choice and there are other ways to manage it that are not surgery/medication.

I also believe that you are not tranisitioning to the other sex because that is not possible in humans. For that reason part of being Trans is that you accept that there will always be someone that sees you as the sex you are. This can cause more problems depeneding on the cultural norms about sex. This stress can also increase if you are only in the company of the sex you wish to be i.e if TGW is around mixed company then its alot easy to see them as a woman, but the second they are around just women then it becomes very obvious they are TG. Therfore if someone wishes to transitiion they need to be fully aware that they are choosing a mid-point and they can't control other peoples reactions to that.

I agree that most people are don't actually support people transitioning. From my point of view it is taking healthy tissue and changing it into something that is dysfunctional and has currently unknown effects. I don't believe we have enough longitudinal studies to be able to consent and counsel young trans-people properly on the risk they are taking. I think this is sadly going to end up with a lot of people experiencing profound medical problems in a few years that could have been avoided.

I would profoundly disagree with going anywhere near Reddit. A lot of the people on there are terminally online and simply cannot deal with real world interactions and so their feelings of anxiety are so misplaced that they cannot give useful advice and information.

And lastly I believe the worst thing to happen to Trans people is the idea of affirmation therapy. This means that they are told that their feelings about their body are reality. Good therapy validates feelings i.e. your feelings are real and you need to feel them rather than push them down, rather than validating their feelings of not being in touch with their body as real feelings but not reality. There is a big difference. All people feel disconnected with their body at some point during their life, and there will be a huge increase in that if trauma is invovled.

Not "anti trans". Feminist.

There used to be a requirement for psychological assessment and it was a long process. A friend of mine who went Ftm about 15 years ago also needed to have a hysterectomy and double mastectomy because of the increased cancer risk due to the testosterone, as a requirement for legal transitioning. This has all changed with the self-ID laws that were brought recently.

I used to think that I understood the difference, but now certain authorities are telling us that transvestites and crossdressers are trans. It's all very confusing.

I recall that there was consternation when Glasgow Life (which deals with sports facilities in Glasgow) included crossdressers as trans.

yes but since last year we have SelfID so I'm not sure what the new rules are.

But i for one would not be happy if non-EU people can waltz in and use my contributions for bullshit surgery.

I bet you wouldn't be the only one who wouldn't be happy about it. I mean, I'm a German citizen since the minute I was born and was a member of a Krankenkasse for the first ~25 years of my life and I still can't just waltz in get medical treatments.

I wish someone would come up with a better expression than “transphobe” or “transphobic”.

I’ve had the words hurled at me a few times fuelled by aggression and dislike of my GC views. I also had a look at the trans pages on Reddit and they use this term like it’s the worst possible insult. It’s also used as a “gotcha” when you are trying to have a reasonable discussion and the only response you get is that you don’t understand anything as you are “transphobic”.

It’s just such a ridiculous term that it undermines any arguments when someone regresses to using it and it also just makes me want to laugh. I always have the image of walking into a room and opening a cupboard and getting a fright when a trans person jumps out at me.

I wish someone could come up with a better more well thought description, I know people who use the word transphobic and would refuse to use GC as they feel that’s not an accurate term to represent GC views, bigot is a well used alternative. I prefer bigot as it actually had a meaning and a dictionary definition.

I know it’s a silly thing but I’ve seen it derail lots of discussions when someone tries to shut down a debate by just saying someone must be transphobic unless they 100% affirm that trans people can change sex. The next thing everyone is arguing about the term phobia and that it doesn’t refer to a deep seated fear of trans people.

It’s the same with the unnecessary use of “cis” as an adjective. When did people feel the need to use this when the words “woman” or “man” were perfectly satisfactory before?

I don’t want to derail the thread and I’m being a hypocrite by complaining about the same thing then doing it myself. I just noticed it used on this thread in the same way i’ve used it as an example and it got me pondering about it.

There is one good thing about the term “transphobe” though. It usually leads to an accurate conclusion that someone who uses the term isn’t going to be open to any other views and is part of the trans cult. Maybe we should leave it as it is as way to identify them quickly so we don’t have to keep trying to uphold an equal discussion?

Is this satire 😂

Not believing a man can be a woman isn't hate.

It's this bullshit along with the 'there's no debate' brigade that is the reason so many people don't really support the community.

Disagreeing doesn't equal hate.

I dislike Chinese food it doesn't mean I hate Chinese people.

I don't mean to derail this thread in any way at all.

"You've got to truly, truly believe that she's changed sex!"

But I was really interested by your reply. I read 1984 about 45 years ago so I don't remember much of it. I actually took this to be a reference to Peter Pan.

There is an exchange between Peter Pan and Wendy in Act One where Peter says that the first laugh of a new born child becomes a fairy. But there is a problem:

"Children know such a lot now. Soon they don’t believe in fairies, and every time a child says ‘I don’t believe in fairies’ there is a fairy somewhere that falls down dead."

If you go to any panto of Peter Pan then there is usually a part where children in the audience are asked to say that they do truly believe in fairies.

I'd be interested in understanding what the 1984 or Clockwork Orange references are.

Hmm.

How does your husband feel about hissister doing this?

I'd take lead from him because HE not you will be the one who has had his formative years where he formed his own identity shaped by his sex and birth order and relationship to his sister.

Start from that.

Do you feel obliged to do what the sister says. Do what you think is best. 'Being nice' is not necessarily the right approach and can do more harm than good if you are not careful.

Remember how she behaves is relevant. Unacceptable behaviour is still not ok. Don't be blinded by identity heirachies.

And herein lies the problem.

How much kindness and understanding are we supposed to have? Why should we as women have to make that judgement when we are already a vulnerable class? Since when did we pander to teens obsessions? Most teens grow out of these phases. The ones that are encouraged could go on to make huge changes to their bodies that they then later regret (see de-transitioning figures)

The creepy bloke next door is obviously one that sets off your protective instincts. There's a reason for that. Ditto the rapists in court that have demanded their victims call them 'she' It's wrong, and we know that 100%

Why should we bend over backwards for some in tying ourselves in knots differentiating at the risk to us as women? A man in the changing rooms demanding women undress in front of him? Men in rape centres? Men who sometimes identify as women and sometimes identify as men? Pretending that Transwomen menstruate? Where do we draw the line? In some cultures, it is forbidden for Men to mix with women. Women who have been abused by men also deserve protection from them.

People seem hellbent on saying that body dysmorphia is the absolute worst thing for a person to experience. It may be that a person may need psychological help with that rather than surgery and affirtmation of their problem (you wouldn't give a person with anorexia liposuction)

There needs to be a line, not a 'depends on the person'

@Primrose86:
"She has plans to go overseas and transition in germany where apparently you can get surgeries on the public health system while living with her grandpa."

@BoldHedgehog :
" It will likely be an administrative battle (entirely in German) even just to access benefits/get health insurance paid in the absence of a job. "

I've been through this for a child that came to Germany from the UK (children are normally insured automatically as dependants, but this wasn't my biological child, I "only" had custody). It took me 6 months and numerous letters between me, the NHS and my German public insurer to get the child into the German system. All the while paying doctor's bills from my own pocket, because the kid wasn't insured. The German passport didn't help anything.

For an adult, the requirements will very probably be a fulltime job and payments into the system. Otherwise one has to apply to a private health insurance.

I guess my position would be to check that SiL has access to neutral counselling and support before doing anything - and that the family are aware of the risks of surgery (and regret rates afterwards) and understand that immediately affirming without encouraging her to explore what underpins her feelings is unwise given her autism. I’d want DH to check that she doesn’t have any other co-morbid issues such as depression, anxiety etc that may be feeding this. And then I’d want to support my DH as this has seismic impacts on him. He loves his sibling and will just want what’s best for her so supporting him as his partner is important. Unless you have regular contact with SiL, you don’t need to engage at all other than to make sure your DH’s MH remains in a good place.

You respect his wishes and address him as he wishes to be addressed. You support him and continue to treat him as a valued part of the family. He is an adult who can do what he likes.

Therefore the OP (who has never been back) is also an adult and can do what they like, too.

This

I think there is a difference between how I engage with someone, particularly a family member, and what I believe or support them to be able to do. I saw an interview where Helen Joyce said she would call someone by their preferred pronouns, while understanding that was a kindness, but also being clear this did not require them to have access to unsuitable spaces.

Exactly so.

Anyone can make whatever declaration they please, and we are free to agree to do as they ask, or not.

@Primrose86 what are your own feelings? How would you feel most comfortable responding? What was your first instinct and where has that come from?

Hey, OP. I haven't read the whole thread. I just want to share a few things.

"DH's sibling has just come out as a man."

I hope that's not how they are presenting things. They are not a man; they'll never be a man. They are a transman, which is a different thing from a man. If they don't accept this difference, they are going to get hurt when they reach the limits of what they can achieve.

"How should I react to all this."

My first question is how is your husband reacting to this? Is he okay with this? Does he struggle? Is he asking for your support or your counsel?

"What usually happens after people come out. I assume they progress to hormones and surgery"

Hormones, often. Surgery, less often. More specifically in the case of transmen: top surgery, quite often, but bottom surgery, very rarely.

"Are people really happy identifying as another gender when they wouldn't look like the other gender?"

Not necessarily, but still happier than identifying as our sex. That's the whole point of being out as trans.

Yeah, she could go around telling people they're ugly, stupid, fat etc. Any of which could be true but most of us have tact and treat people with respect and kindness.