Trans Ex-Judge on BBC Newscast

[CaveMum]

Can’t bear to listen to it mussels, but if anyone has a string stomach/wants to take one for the team, today’s Newscast is a 43 minute long interview by Laura Kuenssberg of Victoria McCloud who is planning a challenge to overturn the Supreme Court ruling that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law.

There aren’t enough 🙄 emoji’s in the world!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0lh0c9r?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Maybe he thinks he is going to be chosen by God to give birth to the second Messiah. (Does the pill work on that?)

I’m really baffled about the pregnancy comment he made.

Is he attempting a joke?
Is he hoping to confuse listeners?
Or is he so immersed in his fiction that he thinks pregnancy is a possibility? Surely not.

Or he is mentally unhinged and in complete denial of basic reality.

There are moments when I wish the SC had agreed to hear evidence from VM.

I think an hour listening to this spacer would have been illuminating for the judges, but maybe not in the sense that VM and Jolyon imagine.

Maybe that’s wrong and there are gangs of men with crowbars just waiting to jump on anyone nonconforming

DH would avoid going somewhere thats rough as sin and there's a slight risk someone might kick off and he might get beaten up because its well, rough as sin. He's not trans.

The fact that most places where there are high numbers of trans people tend to be hipster central and therefore about as far removed from rough as sin, seems to be lost here.

Are we saying that if these fancy theatres in London which have insisted on fucking over women with gender neutral toilets have an issue with fighting? I mean voeyerism and issues over privacy and sexual assault are still MUCH easier and more likely to still occur in these places but nope we have to only consider that transwomen are going to get killed before we even consider that.

Its bonkers.

I'd go with b). It's disinformation. There are plenty of people out there who will believe VM has grown a female reproductive system or been given one through surgery. Plus, it's easy to row back on if challenged - 'it's just a little light-hearted joke'.

Assuming these men are mad and everyone will see it is a bad strategy.

For those of you commenting on his age I would just say that we really don't need to give more than one reason why he can't get pregnant😘

There was one such claim from a rather substantial man who identifies as a woman on Woman’s Hour a few years ago.

He is a local councillor on the South coast - I forget his name but he stated quite confidently that he was at least as likely to be raped as the female interviewer- possibly Jenny Murray (before she was hounded off WH for not celebrating these men). Cue stunned silence in the studio….

Sorry I wasn't clear - they have access under an indirect discrimination claim (?) to be protected from the gender pay gap (VM's example) if they can prove they have been treated the same as women. But also if their pay was depressed via direct discrimination against gender reassignment.

Dammit where is that laughing reaction when I need it. You made me chuckle with this

Do you mean perceptive discrimination?

When males who identify as women say things like the pill is “stopping me from getting pregnant”, they don’t really believe it or expect anyone else to believe it. I think it’s a power move- obliging the interviewer to either stay silent (and appear to acquiesce) or to question the premise ( then be accused of insensitivity, prurience, etc.). Either way, the interviewer can’t win.

I feel like if someone was so outrageously transohobic that they were going to literally kill a trans person then they'd probably do that whether they were in the men's toilets or not. Do we have a figure for how many gender non conforming men have been assaulted/killed in male toilets? What should we do if it shows that gay men are most at risk? Should they be allowed in the women's?

yes that must be it!

It says a great deal that the average informed person can name multiple incidents and convicted men offenders who harmed women and girls physically in a women's space while identifying as a woman.

I know of no men harmed in men's spaces at all, and considering the media support for this agenda any man who had suffered would be front page news with MPs in tears and rending their garments. Everybody would know.

Or even a figure for how many men generally are killed in toilets? And then whole population also? I wasn't aware that toilets were a known death hot-spot

I suspect the 'violence' they fear if they use the male facilities is the non-literal 'literal' kind i.e. a bloke might acknowledge that the are in fact a bloke.

Just listened to some of the interview - Laura Kuenssberg sounds out of her depth. She sounds very unsure how to frame her questions whilst still being kind (or possibly whilst keeping to the terms VMC agreed to when signing up for the interview). The spoken word is a great medium for this debate I have to say.

I don’t know about death, but certainly crime, because it’s a public space where people are entitled to privacy.

I agree that it would be interesting to know the statistics.

I would guess that the normal pattern would emerge - that men are more likely to be involved in violent crime as perpetrators and victims.

Whats not clear is why some men should have permission to seek refuge in women’s facilities.

To be honest, I'd have less of an issue with gay men in womens' toilets. Most of the gay men I know are lovely, quite old-fashioned, and utterly uninterested in womens' bodies to the point of barely noticing that they exist.

They’re not a killed ‘hot spot’. However approximately 11% of cardiac arrests happen on the toilet so one reason there are lots of deaths. Especially if you realise there’s 1 CA every 5 minutes on average.

Thats why toilets have to be able to be opened outwards from the outside for retrieval.

Lots of sex. Especially in private ones and the extra space in disabled.

edit: appallingly written post as I am on a bus

I was picking up on McCloud's claim that the SC judgment "is putting lives at risk" "Someone is going to get killed.... I stay out of the loos".

The Trans Murder reporting stats for the UK go reasonably far back and there is an average of less than 1 murder per year. Googling, Brianna Ghey is the most recent coverage - but her being trans was incidental to her murder. However let's ignore that and say (as an overestimate) that the murder rate is 1 per year.

According to ONS homicide statistics there are about 570 murders per year in England & Wales. Of these 414 were male. The total UK population is estimated at 68.3 million. The total trans population is estimated at 0.44% (using scottish 2022 census findings) is about 300,000.

So the rates for murder/homicide in England & Wales are:
1 in 120,000 for all people
1 in 165,000 for men
1 in 300,000 for trans people

The trans lobby just don't seem to be numerate, alongside a loose grasp of basic facts and logic

I think that's a belief the trans lobby likes to encourage. Lots of people have no idea about AGP and assume that trans identifying men are gay, effeminate and too mortified by the thought of being noticed to actually look at anyone. I suspect that when lots of people who say they are OK with trans identifying men in the women's that this is what they have in mind. The TRAs don't want people to picture a 6 foot hairy guy in fishnets with an erection when they are asked about TWs in women's spaces. It's why Isla Bryson had such an impact on public opinion suddenly people weren't picturing Hailey from Corrie anymore they were seeing a cock in pink leggings.

People also should realise (but don’t) that having sex in a public toilet is a crime. You can get 6months for it, though people are rarely prosecuted. Lots of public toilets have been closed with sex being cited as one of the factors.

For medically emergencies or for personal safety, McCloud is much safer in the traditional smaller men’s cubicles with door and partition gaps. If there’s any ambiguity, even the single sex designs become enclosed. It’s the complete privacy that causes the problems for anyone at their most vulnerable.

I think I see a tendency on MN to assume that gay men who identify as trans are quiet, self-effacing and just want to live a quiet life, whereas heterosexual men who identify as trans are all into fishnets, revealing tops and self display. That seems a bit simplistic and only allows for stereotypical HSTS and AGP presentations. Men with AGP tendencies come in different personality types,and I suspect that applies to HSTS as well. In addition, I'm not at all convinced that all trans identified men fit those two categories.

It's not that those categories don't exist, but that there are probably other ones, and even those who broadly fit those categories don't actually all behave the same. I certainly don't think the trans people I know see other trans people (the ones who splash their dubious behaviour all over social media) as I see them either.

If LK is out of her depth when a man in his fifties says he takes pills to stop him getting pregnant and she doesn't pick up on it, then frankly she should be sacked.

She's supposed to be a world class journalist.