Good Law Practice launch a EHCR/Supreme Court challenge over toilets

[fromorbit]

After raising over 418K it turns out the GLP's amazing legal case is all about toilets. Details:

https://archive.is/TWRTl

No doubt it will fail like most of their previous legal cases.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5336208-good-law-project-suing-the-ehrc-and-bridget-phillipson-letter-before-action?page=1

This. Womanhood is not a gift to graciously be bestowed on men who suffer enough. Or, lets be honest about this, the men who scream enough and try to be scary enough. Neither is it going to happen by saying 'yes absolutely we will all pretend earnestly that you are a woman, regardless of the impact this has on actual women' - because the only reason anyone is doing this is because of the perceived importance of men and relieving their suffering, and the absolute lack of respect for or belief in any value in women.

It is sad and difficult for someone dealing with this psychological issue, but enablement and lying is not a kind or sensible thing to do with anyone who is unable to cope with reality as it is. It's the ground for therapists, not well meant but sentimental people-pleasing. Particularly when it is so very damaging to women and girls.

The PP seemed to be saying that people with trans identities should not be distressed by being male because they are male. I was highlighting that other facts - such as knowing everyone dies, doesn’t stop us feeling distressed when someone dies.

I'm also increasingly noticing and concerned by this 'need for empathy' for both sides - when also let's get real about this, it means 'women, women-up and get the socialisation out to soothe men'.

No one is requiring trans identified men to try finding a grain of empathy for anyone or even manage a thought for anyone but themselves. Largely because it's not going to happen, but it's yet more attempts to make women do the work and budge up for men.

No. Women owe nothing to men who treat them like shit. How the man says he identifies at the time, or what psychological conditions he may be suffering from, is utterly irrelevant.

But your argument is a total straw man.

It's bollocks as a comparison.

It is possible to believe that sex is immutable and significant and that transwomen should not, in any circumstance, be included in the category ‘women’ and at the same time, be empathic to the feelings that this generates for transwomen.

It is possible to be empathic to the feelings it generates and completely denounce inappropriate and illegal behaviour that is misattributed to being caused by those feelings. Feelings must not be used to condone bad behaviour.

It is possible to hold in mind the broad range of people that are classified as trans and recognise that not all of them behave badly or are narcissistic.

When I post on this board about trans people, I have in mind a very diverse group of people.

Just to be clear who you think we should have empathy for:

Can you help me understand why so.

I posted the argument that it is possible to accept that transwomen feel dehumanised when excluded from the category ‘woman’ and that women feel dehumanised when they are included. I said get why both sets of feeling arise.

A response to this was - but they aren’t women.

My response was to highlight another known facts that doesn’t inoculate us from distress.

How is this a straw man!

Posted too soon. You want us to have empathy for these men?

https://transcrimeuk.com

To be fair to Brainworm she’s made it clear that she is talking about a hypothetical group of trans people who aren’t behaving badly. I can see the point but I think there is some narcissism and entitlement in most of these people, so any request for empathy for their feelings, which are basically that they should get whatever they want to the detriment of others is going to fall flat here on FWR I think.

I think the misogyny and entitlement runs right through the “trans rights” movement like a stick of rock. It underpins all their demands.

I don’t think or expect anyone to have empathy for anyone else.

I experience anger and frustration by the lack of empathy and understanding people like JM have for women like me who want sex to be recognised as immutable and significant. I find it challenging to accept this is difficult - because I don’t find it difficult to have empathy both ways.

Your response suggests that you may be taking up a stance similar to JM but from the same side as me?

I understand the well meant intent, but it's a rising theme and it's all getting a bit Lets Not Be Beastly To The Germans.

I’d like their identity to be treated as a personal belief, which I, with my different belief based on the material reality of sex, am in no way compelled to show allegiance to.

Your response suggests that you may be taking up a stance similar to JM but from the same side as me?

Funny how you equate women not having empathy for their abusers with men not having empathy for those they seek to abuse.

Why do women have to do all this emotional labour here?

No one expects men to.

We don't have to. It's not our problem to solve.

No one gives lesbians empathy for being told they must accept males - that just homophobia. No one gives rape victims empathy when they are being told they are 'exclusionary' by elected members of government (of various levels). No one gives empathy for the distressed old lady who has dementia and is being told that the man helping her is actually a woman.

All this empathy demand is one way, and only serves to legitimise an unreasonable demand and expectation.

The only acceptable response to an addict is 'no'. Not 'oh well you have have a little bit, I'll concede, because I'm sympathetic'.

Just no is enough.

We do not have to do this work for other people.

The 'but my friend is a nice transwomen' trap which is completely biased and really that reflective and turns a blind eye due to having been conditioned to.

You do women if the friend is quite so nice to people who don’t uphold their fantasy or allow themselves to be used as participants in their fetish.

I would bet money they’re all on Reddit/Discord/BlueSky slagging off women with boundaries.

My professional exposes me to lots of people with trans identities. Very few act and behave like the trans activists’ behaviour reported/shared on this board.

How many of the trans-identified men do you refer to as ‘she’? How many use the women’s toilets?

There is as much diversity within the trans umbrella as there is outside of it.

The people supposedly representing and advocating for trans people do a lot of damage. They represent ‘wing’ of the trans population.

None and none - within the contexts in which I work

With respect, you don’t know what they say when you’re not around. Go and hang out on most trans spaces online, they’re not very friendly to non compliant women.

But again, I don’t see that women should have to feel particular empathy for a group of people who believe womanhood is a feeling, not a material reality. However they conduct themselves. It’s not my job to coddle these people.

This may be true, and I am a bit sorry for the ones who just want to live and keep their heads down.

However:

1. Very, very few of those have spoken out and said 'not in my name'. They've just reaped the benefits of the climate of fear created by the aggressive wankers.
2. There's no way of keeping the aggressive vicious misogynists out and letting the nice ones in, even if we wanted to. So it has to be a hard 'no' to all men in women's spaces, however sad it makes them.