Ban the Burka? Q to Kier Starmer today-is this a good idea or not?

[happydappy2]

I know dictating to women what they can or can't wear is not popular amongst feminists. But is stating that they cannot cover their face a bad thing? There are many situations where faces have to be visible for security, ie in a bank you cannot wear a motorcycle helmet. I know some people will say if certain women cannot wear a burka they will not be able to leave their home....but isn't it better that women can just live their lives in the same way as men do, ie faces uncovered? Interested to hear others views. Personally having lived in Saudi Arabia I respected their customs when in their country but feel the UK should also be able to say, in our country, women can show their faces.

Well that would be true if people who object to the burqa also object to hijab.
And there will be those who do, but also those who are singling out the all-covering, free movement limiting burqa rather than other forms of Muslim religious dress.

Yes this is often posted about law changes. Most people are decent after all and accept the law.

I thought so. It was you who talked about remembering past threads. Include that.

Yes, but the proposed change of law is supposedly to liberate oppressed women who are being forced to wear the burka/niqab against their will. Do we really think that the men who are oppressing them in this way are decent, or do we think that they will find other ways of oppressing their women instead, e.g. by curtailing their freedom to leave the home entirely?

"Well you wouldn't be forcibly disrobed (another attempt to make it sound sexual) because if we passed a law you wouldn't be doing it.

All decent people obey laws without being forced"

But what would happen if women decided to protest it. Or were forced to protest it?

Which to be honest I could absolutely see happening.

What do you think a ban would do for anti-immigration sentiment? How safe do you think it would make Muslim women feel on our streets and in our communities? Does it not concern you at all that it sends the message to immigrants - namely those who are not white or not Christian- that they must conform or suffer the consequences? How do you think that would read to the people who are deeply racist (either consciously or not) and how do you think it would impact on their behaviours? Because I think, to those people, it would feel very validating. That this had to be put in place because Muslims ARE a risk to public safety. That immigrants SHOULD be viewed with suspicion. That anyone who isn't living the way they live SHOULD be forced to do differently. I genuinely think we'd see an increase in hate crimes if a ban like this were taken forward and you'd create genuine fear in Muslim and non white communities.

What?

Include what in what?

I genuinely don't know what point you're trying to make here. I can only assume that it's more obvious to you than it is to me.

Whatever you can remember 😬

You’ve asked for past interactions I’m saying I don’t need to as you’ve said you recall past threads. That’s where you have opposed my posts in answer to your later question. You already retain the info.

I'm genuinely embarrassed for you after reading this.

I don’t think we should add more pressure to those who are oppressed. Let’s look at the oppressors instead ie the men

Why? Don’t you think most people are decent enough to accept and observe the law?

Do you?

What exactly are you finding embarrassing about what the pp said?

I recall many of your past threads, yes. Not all, as you are quite a prolific poster, but enough to have formed an impression of where you stand on things. I haven't kept any record of specific details!

I note that, for whatever reason, you don't like to be described as "right wing". I will respect your preference going forward.

As to whatever else you're talking about, I'm afraid I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. Too cryptic for me, I'm afraid!

I disagree. I can’t see whose business it is what I wear assuming I’m decent. Policing other people’s religious practice is disgusting as is enforced removal of clothing.

What a great idea!

First we have a massive public debate with all sorts of tensions raised and then a huge struggle for politicians to try and formulate an actual law which applies to the niqab but doesn't apply to masks etc.

Then we have police officers trying to enforce it among all the people who will wear a scarf around their nose in order to make a point.

It's not like the country isn't facing important problems is it? Let's waste time trying to ban niqabs instead!

I feel like a section of humanity has just decided that mankind's problems are too difficult to solve and is occupying itself with getting angry about unimportant things instead.

You are stuck on this right wing thing I feel
you are itching to use it as you keep bringing it up.

Your take isn’t a correct one still.

I’m not referring to anything beyond dig into your own declared memory of my posts in answer to the earlier request of ‘what did you oppose’. You have it already in your mind and saves me doing it.

???

How do you blank out at this point 😬

You’ve asked for examples I’m saying you have them as you said you remember past threads already.

You clearly have a particular thread/discussion in mind, whereas I don't. My impression of your political leanings is based on numerous threads about various different topics, some of which I may not even have posted on. I honestly don't know what you're talking about, for all that you appear to think I do, so there is no point in going round in circles on it.

I'll leave it there.

I don’t have anything in mind if you remember those threads as you say you likely opposed what I was saying. That’ll do as an example rather than going back over stuff.

Sorry, I'm not going to keep going round in circles. It's pointless and it's derailing the thread.

Have a nice day.

So the visible sight of women literally being imprisoned in black robes they can barely see out of, who won't be able to eat or drink whilst wearing, or socially interact with other people, isn't worth trying to tackle? These women are shrouded....it's not natural or indeed needed. For any one that choses to wear a burka I can bet there are 100 who are forced to. For that reason I think they should be banned.

Yes that’s for the best, you did ask for examples which wasn’t a great idea.

Do you think it's okay for your daughter to be slut shamed? Because if you live in an area where women cover themselves up, the message that goes out, and gets to your daughter is women's skin, hair and bodies are to be ashamed of, and women are responsible for men's behaviour
Someone like that teaches her, children with such views are the ones she plays with and they'll tell her to cover up.They'll laugh at her when she wears her leotard or if wears normal clothes western children and women wear that they don't rate.
Why do you propose to normalise it in this country where we fought hard against oppression and never had anything of this scale and nature? We dont need even grimmer aways to oppress women.
Think the only people who support it are the ones living in 97% white areas where they'll never experience it.
The same way that those who support the right of a 6.5" bodybuilder in a dress called Lily to access the same toilet a 5 year old girls uses - they'll simply never experience it. And they can't relate or imagine as they have little ability to think deeply. Probably because social media has rot their brain. Or they never had much.

You can't see that it can be used to oppress women? Anyway you didn't respond to the actual point I was making.

I've already made it that I'm not a fan of policing what women wear.

FWIW, I live in a very diverse area. My daughter wears whatever she wants.