Flags removed ahead of Pride event = hate crime?

[Windy23]

Not sure how to feel about this. I don't agree with someone taking the flags down but is it really a hate crime?

BBC News - Hate crime probe after Arran Pride flags removed
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgq3ekyjeveo

This is the crux of the issue.

If someone says a male person can be a woman, we literally cannot trust anything else they say, because we know they have a habit of using words to mean their exact opposite.

Wow intrusive much ... What does that have to do with anything and the poster certainly doesn't have to explain her sexuality, preferences or sexual history on a public forum

I haven't insisted on men being anything.

i have insisted I am not policing other people's stated identities. If that way forward is good enough for the best countries in the world for women, who have introduced gender self-ID and remain the best countries in the world for women after doing so, it's good enough for me.

No more intrusive than the CEO of Stonewall (not known to have ever had a sexual relationship with a man herself) saying that lesbians who don't consider trans women as potential sexual partners are akin to sexual racists.

Knowing whether that poster has ever had a heterosexual sexual relationship herself would help us to understand how she actually defines a lesbian.

If you call yourself a lesbian and also say that trans women are women and can be lesbians, it follows that you should be open to dating one. (And it also follows that your definition of the word lesbian isn't the same as most people's.) If you're not open to dating one then you clearly don't actually believe they are women. (In which case you are untrustworthy because you say things you don't mean.)

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdBrgWrn/ just one example

I don't think that Suggestions understands that the truth (human beings cannot change sex) is the root of why I have never believed that TWAW/TMAM. It is that truth that made it possible for me to look at gender identity ideology and see huge issues with it, including the homophobia.

Suggestions needs to understand that there is nothing that they can say that can change my mind. Their words are meaningless, as human beings cannot change sex, and I am not going to lie.

i have insisted I am not policing other people's stated identities.

Which is just another way of saying "insisted on words not meaning things". Which makes any statements you make about "lesbians" or "women", or about yourself, meaningless.

I'm not on TikTok for obvious reasons.

If this happened (which is a big "if" given the explosion of people obviously lying about this for social media likes since the Supreme Court judgment), why do you think the security guard was a gender critical feminist?

Oh not this again Suggestions! Every thread you're ever on.... the rabbit's geriatric and knackered, put it back in the hat and leave it alone for pity's sake, it's been debunked time after time after time. The only 'hate' on this thread is in your posts, repeatedly showing your disgust and derision for women who say no to men. You do you, have fun with that. The law protects women's rights from belief systems like yours however for very good reason. Including the lesbian ones.

Definitions need to be pinned down, otherwise two people can have a conversation about what at first appears to be the same thing, but is actually about two different things.

RE people's stated identities. People can identify as lots of different things, but it does not make it true, and it does not mean that I have to believe them. If you actually are AAAA you don't need to identify as AAAA because it's just what you actually are. Laws need to be based on reality, not fantasy.

Lesbian isn't an identity.

It's a word for an exclusively same sex attracted female person.

If you accept male people or people who are sexually attracted to male people "identifying as" lesbians, you no longer have a word for exclusively same sex attracted female people. Who have actually experienced discrimination for being exclusively same sex attracted female people.

That's why being a lesbian has got fuck all to do with identity and the meaning of the word does actually need to be policed due to the relentless encroachment on the original group by people who quite clearly do not meet the criteria for inclusion within it.

We shall have fog by teatime.

Attacking a poster rather than engaging in debate serves no-one. You can have that belief and not be sexuality attracted to a type. I don't like short men, not keen on clean shaven men either I'm still straight and believe that short men are valid as men My neighbour is a lesbian and has a trans partner, I know another lesbian that is with a lesbian, your argument doesn't follow

I think it's about time a separate local council run group was formed for this sort of non event thing so the police can get on with solving proper crime like burglary, house breaking, assault, murder etc.

It's a complete lack of police resources (see also police housecalls over tweets) and is seriously affecting people's faith in the police.

Have been coming across a lot of these particular type of lesbians online recently. Lesbians who are very supportive of trans rights, have always been around trans women in lesbian spaces (usually for decades), loathed to define terms like "lesbian" or "trans" and seem to strongly believe that self-ID is the way forward, which then means that they are supposedly happy to date men with beards and penises because they self ID as women.

I'm just finding it a bit odd.

It amuses me that Suggestions has not been persuaded by our debunking of 'Countries with self ID being the best for women', yet Suggestions thinks that we will be persuaded by it being posed for the fourth thousandth time.

I feel we have reached a bit of an impasse.

It's not about being attracted or not being attracted to a certain type.

Lesbians are not attracted to male people. Any male people, even the ones who wear dresses. The definition of a lesbian is someone who is sexually attracted to female people but not male people.

Nope. The only homophobia in seeing here is yours. It’s just sad that you don’t realise it.

It is ultimate homophobia to deny that lesbians are exclusively same sex attracted women.

So if a transwoman stated their identity was a lesbian with a lady penis you would be happy to have a relationship with them?

If not then you are transphobic by their definition - and by your own reckoning homophobic too as you stated transphobic = homophobic.

I think it would be more accurate to say that posters have questioned whether this is a good use of police time (although given the low crime rate on Arran they may have nothing else to do), questioned whether the speculation that this is the work of an organised group is overblown (again a tiny population unlikely to have groups like this), and contrasted the police’s action with the way they respond to threats against women (and indeed actual crimes against women).

I don't like short men, not keen on clean shaven men either I'm still straight and believe that short men are valid as men My neighbour is a lesbian and has a trans partner, I know another lesbian that is with a lesbian, your argument doesn't follow

What about short men who identify as tall? Do you fancy them?

Maddy must acknowledge that a man of 5 foot who says he’s 6’2” is in fact tall. Or Maddy is a monster.

Yes exactly. I think too many people like Suggestions have lost touch with basic truths. It feels really good to return to them and look at them.

They probably find it quite distressing at a deep level but but having placed various foundations on top of the lies, they need to carry on and would rather shout the messenger? Just a theory.

I do wonder what goes through the minds of people fighting so hard against the interests of a certain group while purporting to be a member of that group.

This.

Literally denying his existence