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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

World boxing to introduce mandatory sex testing.

603 replies

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 30/05/2025 18:15

worldboxing.org/news/

Guess we'll finally find out whether Imane Khelif is female or not. I suspect he will avoid the testing "out of principle" 🤭

OP posts:
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42
MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2025 11:26

Look I'm NOT arguing that IK is anything but male and shouldn't be anywhere near women's sports, but... he is widely accepted as female in Algeria, not just in the boxing ring e.g. when UNICEF appointed two children's 'ambassadors' in Algerian, they picked one man , footballer Ismael Bennacer [short stint with Arsenal in 2015, now with Marseille] and one [alleged] woman, 'ambassadrice' Imane Khelif.
(I find the outfit worn by the UNICEF rep in the middle interesting- is it some kind of subversive comment??)

There is a huge investment in IK being female, not just in the ring but as a national icon, and IK is often quoted as an inspiration for Algerian and other Arab girls to take up sport etc etc..

I've just done a quick trawl through the online French-language Algerian news sites. They seem very restrained - mostly reporting on the WB's new testing regime and describing IK as excluded from women's boxing for now. They refer to IK as 'she' at all times, but the previous outrage at the world being nasty to 'Our Golden Girl' is noticeably missing.

I get the feeling they know that the game is up...

World boxing to introduce mandatory sex testing.
TopographicalTime · 02/06/2025 11:32

Maaate · 02/06/2025 10:03

This is the photo I saw posted.

Google reports IK as being the youngest of 5 children (2 brothers, 2 sisters) so the caption must be wrong.

Helleofabore · 02/06/2025 11:40

MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2025 11:26

Look I'm NOT arguing that IK is anything but male and shouldn't be anywhere near women's sports, but... he is widely accepted as female in Algeria, not just in the boxing ring e.g. when UNICEF appointed two children's 'ambassadors' in Algerian, they picked one man , footballer Ismael Bennacer [short stint with Arsenal in 2015, now with Marseille] and one [alleged] woman, 'ambassadrice' Imane Khelif.
(I find the outfit worn by the UNICEF rep in the middle interesting- is it some kind of subversive comment??)

There is a huge investment in IK being female, not just in the ring but as a national icon, and IK is often quoted as an inspiration for Algerian and other Arab girls to take up sport etc etc..

I've just done a quick trawl through the online French-language Algerian news sites. They seem very restrained - mostly reporting on the WB's new testing regime and describing IK as excluded from women's boxing for now. They refer to IK as 'she' at all times, but the previous outrage at the world being nasty to 'Our Golden Girl' is noticeably missing.

I get the feeling they know that the game is up...

There really has been a huge investment in Khelif. I think where I peel off is that I believe that Khelif knew the truth when Khelif accepted these roles and started boxing. Sure Khelif could have been under pressure. However, it was a choice.

Khelif started the UNICEF ambassador role on the 31st January 2024. By that stage, Khelif had proof. But accepted that role anyway.

Helleofabore · 02/06/2025 11:43

Interestingly this is the blurb from UNICEF incase those reading had missed it last year:

www.unicef.org/algeria/en/stories/top-female-boxer-imane-khelif-dreams-gold-inspire-young-people

When Imane Khelif, 24, one of Algeria’s top female boxers is asked what achievements she is most proud of, she says, “It’s being able to overcome the obstacles in my life.”

Imane recalls how at 16 she managed to excel in football in her rural village in Tiaret in western Algeria despite football not being seen as a game fit for girls. Moreover, the boys in her village felt threatened and picked fights with her. Ironically it was her ability to dodge the boys’ punches that got her into boxing.

Yet taking up boxing proved even more of an obstacle for her than football. It meant travelling for training each week to the next village, 10 kilometres away, which also meant money for bus fare. She was unable to ask her father who, besides being away working in the Sahara desert as a welder, did not approve of boxing for girls. To raise money for transport, Imane sold scrap metal for recycling and her mother sold couscous. Together they were able to afford the bus to the town for Imane to have regular boxing training sessions.

Three years later, following long training hours every week, and at 19 years of age, Imane came 17th at the 2018 World Championships in New Delhi and then represented Algeria at the 2019 World Championships in Russia, where she came 33rd. Now she is preparing for the summer Olympics Games in France. “I started with nothing and now I have everything,” says Imane, in an interview in the UNICEF office in the capital, Algiers. “Both my parents come to support me. They are my biggest fans,” she says, a large charming smile lighting up her face.

Imane stresses how important sport is in a country like Algeria where opportunities for girls in sport could be limited (instead of restriction) particularly in villages and where overweight and obesity are becoming a serious public health challenge, particularly for women. Algeria has an obesity rate of 22 per cent and is among the top 20 countries in the world that have high rates of obesity. About 12.8 per cent of children under the age of 5 are overweight, and it is predicted that in 2030, 46 per cent of adult Algerians will be obese if no interventions are put in place to reverse the trend. “Many parents are unaware of the advantages of sport, and how it can improve not only your physical fitness but also your mental wellbeing,” adds Imane.

Yet Imane is not just driven to make a difference in her own life, but also for other Algerians. Her new role as UNICEF national ambassador, which she officially took up on 31 January, gives her the chance to do that. UNICEF Representative in Algeria, Katarina Johansson, on appointing Imane as an ambassador says, “We feel honored that Imane has accepted to be an ambassador for us. She is already a great role model for young people to get involved in sports in Algeria, and she can now extend her influence to push forward the child rights agenda.”

On her part, Imane says, “I am deeply honored to be an ambassador for UNICEF. My message to young people is to follow your dreams. Don’t let obstacles come in your way, resist any obstacles and overcome them. My dream is to win a gold medal. If I win, mothers and fathers can see how far their children can go. I particularly want to inspire girls and children who are disadvantaged in Algeria.”

fromorbit · 02/06/2025 12:16

JKR is still winning.

J.K. Rowling

It’s a win for women because they won’t be battered to death in the ring by men.
If you had any idea what physical tests women go through routinely in their lives you’d know a cheek swab is no bigger deal than flossing your teeth.
Any more moronic questions, wing them over.

Kaleidoscope News

Do all the TERFs and JK Rowlings of the world not realise how awful this new policy is for women? In order to compete in World Boxing events, ALL women must undergo invasive physical examinations (not just Olympic boxer Imane Khelif). How exactly is this a win for women?

NoBinturongsHereMate · 02/06/2025 12:25

To raise money for transport, Imane sold scrap metal for recycling and her mother sold couscous.

While I applaud the entrepreneurial spirit of both - raising cash is not easy in that sort ofnrural community - I note that one of these things is not like the other.

Helleofabore · 02/06/2025 13:17

NoBinturongsHereMate · 02/06/2025 12:25

To raise money for transport, Imane sold scrap metal for recycling and her mother sold couscous.

While I applaud the entrepreneurial spirit of both - raising cash is not easy in that sort ofnrural community - I note that one of these things is not like the other.

It was hard to raise funds in isolated rural communities in the past. My brother and I used to both bag dried cow manure from our farm to be sold by our dad for funds to fund things we wanted to participate in. And we used to both make stuff.

Datun · 02/06/2025 17:41

BundleBoogie · 02/06/2025 10:58

That’s the one I saw. IKs Wikipedia also studiously avoids mentioning his siblings that clearly exist. I wonder why?

The Algerian authorities and IKs parents (though they may have been coerced) have been proven to have lied to us in their claim that he was female. There is extremely thin evidence to back any claims that he was even raised as female. There is less thin evidence showing that he was raised as male. Either way it’s not actually that important as it is just a face saving exercise for Algeria (I just can’t bear liars).

However, the loose end I can’t tie up is that if the theory that he was raised male is correct, why was he chosen to be presented as female and represent Algeria in the Olympics? They clearly didn’t choose him because they thought he could pass as female.

Option 1 is that he was actually raised as a female and they are not lying (despite all indicators to the contrary).

Option 2. The most cynical explanation is that the Algerian Olympic coaches saw the clear opportunity given by the IOC rules that explicitly allowed IK to compete if he had the correct passport with a Female marker on it. He was the athlete they could persuade to compete as a woman so they went for it. The version of his birth certificate that records him as female was issued in recent years (2018? can’t remember). I’m not sure if we’ve seen an older version or not.

With the backing of a gold medal hungry Algerian government that is confident it is operating within the IOC rules, who wouldn’t tweak the M to an F on his passport and be the pride of his nation?

I’m assuming Taiwan had the same ‘genius’ idea.

I'm assuming they all have the same genius idea.

Any scout worth his salt would be trawling these countries to find the exact situation you describe.

The money to be made is huge

myplace · 02/06/2025 17:49

That unicef photo…. it’s glaringly obvious. I mean, who were they fooling, and what was in it for the idiots that chose to be fooled?

TopographicalTime · 02/06/2025 20:52

The scouts and trainers are the primary guilty parties here - they do the same in regions of Africa with high rates of XY DSDs. It's entirely cynical and knowingly done.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to do karyotyping on ALL elite sports people entering the female category, but they would need a properly funded care program for people with unexpected findings - some elite athletes will be very young and it's plausible that there are teen 'girls' out there who have been lied to about why they don't have periods. Nothing would surprise me about sports in Russia and similar countries.

ThatCyanCat · 02/06/2025 20:56

TopographicalTime · 02/06/2025 20:52

The scouts and trainers are the primary guilty parties here - they do the same in regions of Africa with high rates of XY DSDs. It's entirely cynical and knowingly done.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to do karyotyping on ALL elite sports people entering the female category, but they would need a properly funded care program for people with unexpected findings - some elite athletes will be very young and it's plausible that there are teen 'girls' out there who have been lied to about why they don't have periods. Nothing would surprise me about sports in Russia and similar countries.

I have sympathy for those in that situation but I honestly don't see why a women's sports organisation should also be responsible for providing therapy to ineligible men.

limecola · 02/06/2025 21:57

You should see the threads on reddit about Imane Khelif being proven to be a man. They are all like explain to me how this beautiful woman could be a man or the labs must have made an error or it isn't as simple as them having male chromosomes its about a cluster of characteristics, sex isn't binary blah, blah. blah. So many low IQ redditors with zero grasp on biology really not able to understand this at all while at the same time trying to argue as if they have a Phd in Biology.

ThatCyanCat · 02/06/2025 22:08

I don't think the average Redditor has ever seen any woman up close who wasn't his mother throwing some food in through the basement door.

JanesLittleGirl · 02/06/2025 22:46

ThatCyanCat · 02/06/2025 22:08

I don't think the average Redditor has ever seen any woman up close who wasn't his mother throwing some food in through the basement door.

Oh, and scraping his dirty laundry out with a garden rake.

CassOle · 02/06/2025 22:49

When you have cast every person who said that IK was male or was probably male as an evil Nazi bigot, admitting that they were correct (and therefore, you possibly were also wrong about their evilness) is going to be very hard, especially for the faithful OTRSOH crowd. Reality putting them 'on the wrong side of History' is going to be bitter pill to swallow.

ThatCyanCat · 02/06/2025 22:53

If the right side of history means cheering for men punching women, taking their medals and lying to the world about it, then history can fuck off.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 02/06/2025 23:24

Imane has an Adam’s apple.
also has a bit of an admission in the name, if you think about it.

LadyChillT · 03/06/2025 06:54

nauticant · 01/06/2025 19:11

wow, that vogue cover pic really showed off his brow ridge to perfection

ArabellaScott · 03/06/2025 06:58

limecola · 02/06/2025 21:57

You should see the threads on reddit about Imane Khelif being proven to be a man. They are all like explain to me how this beautiful woman could be a man or the labs must have made an error or it isn't as simple as them having male chromosomes its about a cluster of characteristics, sex isn't binary blah, blah. blah. So many low IQ redditors with zero grasp on biology really not able to understand this at all while at the same time trying to argue as if they have a Phd in Biology.

Really? Bloody hell.

If they are so sure, surely there will be court cases and protests? They must be agitating for their heroine to be proved female, no?

Khelif's team has been quick to make threats before. Why so quiet now?

ArabellaScott · 03/06/2025 07:04

Holy moly. You'd think it was impossible to defend a man punching women in the face for sport. Times of India has just had a go, although I suspect this may have been written by ChatGPT.

https://archive.ph/14kAs

ThatCyanCat · 03/06/2025 07:10

I really did think that once the horrible but inevitable stuff started happening, people would realise what this all was. I'm coming to the conclusion that a huge number of people, including women and self styled feminists, still think women are support props who come second to men and should always cede their rights, opportunities and even their safety if it makes men happy. You just need to frame it the right way.

ArabellaScott · 03/06/2025 07:18

https://x.com/Wommando/status/1929569248621305883

Astonishing interview with Joanne Lockwood here. Martin Daubney repeatedly asserting the emperor has no clothes, while Lockwood discredits his lying eyes.

https://x.com/Wommando/status/1929569248621305883

Bluebootsgreenboots · 03/06/2025 07:34

@ArabellaScott wow, the conspiracy theory is strong with these people. I find that so scary - you can’t fight this with facts or evidence.

AnotherDayInParadise43 · 03/06/2025 08:01

Wow that is a scary interview

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 03/06/2025 08:06

Sweet lord prior to the olympic scandal I used to use men boxing women as a test to see if TWAW folx really believed that men can be women and every single person I asked either ignored my question or undermined their own position by admitting that in that circumstance there needed to be a distinction. But here we have it. Identity is more important than biology even if it puts women at risk of serious injury/ death.

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