Are toilets still allowed to be cleaned by members of the opposite sex?

[PoisedRubyLion]

I see signs saying toilets may be cleaned by members of the opposite sex in a lot of places. Is this allowed after the supreme court ruling? If a male cleaner was in there it would be a mixed sex space.

Me me!

<lowers hand>

because a male cleaner is there doing his job

a man with a gender identity is there by either deception or bullying and is pushing women’s boundaries and extremely creepy

you’re welcome

But very often there ISN'T a sign. Just a permanent one warning of the possibility of an opposite sex cleaner.

I was in the ladies' toilets at the Arndale Centre Food Court (Manchester) a few weeks ago. Male cleaner was in there popping in and out of every cubicle in turn, mopping. I'm sure he was just doing his job and I didn't feel unsafe, but it very briefly made me feel uncomfortable. Because his presence really hadn't been clearly communicated before myself and teenage DD went in. On checking, as we left, there was just the generic, permanent 'these facilities may be cleaned by staff of any gender' type of sign.

I don't mind a male cleaner in the women's, although in large facilities e.g. shopping centres with multiple cleaners I would prefer them to allocate female cleaners to the women's and male cleaners to the men's. I would hate to be sent into the men's to clean myself, as a woman.

But there really DOES need to be proper warning that there is a man in there RIGHT NOW. Before you go in. And that increasingly isn't the case, ever since the TRAs got the world thinking that keeping single sex spaces, you know, SINGLE SEX wasn't actually important anymore.

Ding ding ding!

You're the winner!

You have the choice between a jet ski, a caravan holiday to Skegness or a set of croquet equipment - take your pick!

(Audience applauds, Bernard waves to the cameras with a big grin and the credits roll).

You seem to be confused about the right to Single Sex spaces and the purpose of service personnel @PoisedRubyLion.

Gosh there are now NINE pages in response to what was a fairly straightforward question, to which the answer was:

'Yes'.

Cleaning a toilet is not the same as using a toilet, so the SC ruling doesn't apply.

Male cleaners' presence is announced.

If you don't want to use the toilet while it is being cleaned by a man, then wait till he's finished.

When I have more time I'll read what on earth was going on for the intervening pages!

women have a choice to enter while the cleaner is there, or to wait until he is finished.
That is consent.

Get a grip.... seriously.

If there isnt a sign, go complain, there should be one.

and you don't get to consent for other women. You can welcome all the men you like into your own private same sex space.

Not if, as happened to me recently, the male cleaner wasn't there when I went into the cubicle but WAS there when I came out.

With no indication, other than a permanent sign on the door indicating that men might clean the toilets.

Come to think of it, even a proper temporary 'man in here RIGHT NOW' sign wouldn't work if there were already women in the toilets, within the cubicles, when it was placed.

I know it's not really the point of this thread, but in busy public toilets would it really be so hard to have male cleaners for the men's toilets and female cleaners for the women's toilets?

I’m starting to wonder what some of you are doing in public toilets that would be an issue while a male cleaner was working!

My teenage autistic daughter has germ phobia. Won't do up her jeans fly and button until AFTER she's washed her hands twice. So she comes out of the cubicle with her jeans open and her knickers slightly on display.

There being a man there when she did this the other week, unexpectedly, wasn't ideal.

they're supposed to notify the women using the toilets as they enter. Most male cleaners do this, and it means the toilets are clean. If you have an issue, you should contact the service provider. If you don't get an adequate response, take your custom elsewhere, or if it's a serious breach of your rights, maybe it's worth taking a case?

All this has nothing to do with men dressed as women barging into women's spaces.
It is whataboutery. The thread was started as such. And it's tiresome

Ideally women's toilets should be cleaned by women, men's by men - which used to be the case, in my experience.

But given that cleaning up after other people is not anybody's ideal job, I guess cleaning companies have to take whoever they can get, and allocate staff by availability rather than sex.

It's not perfect, there can be unwelcome situations, but male cleaners are there doing a job - an important, unpleasant and badly-paid job - not because they have chosen to invade a single-sex space for their own personal reasons.

I don’t consent male cleaners, so does this mean it stops now?

It means that you have the choice whether or not to use a facility with a man in it.

Couldn’t you say the same thing about trans women? If you don’t want to share a space with them, don’t go in

You're being ridiculous and really horrible.
They are women's toilets. The men (who aren't employed to clean them) need to stay out. As per the law
How can you excuse men barging into a women's space?
What the hell is wrong with you?

Because I disagree that trans women are men

As someone posted earlier those signs seem to have become permanent in some places so you don't actually know if there is a male cleaner in there.

Couldn’t you say the same thing about trans women? If you don’t want to share a space with them, don’t go in.

You could. And lots of men do say that in an attempt to force women to let them into their single sex spaces when they are isolated, vulnerable or in a state of undress.

Keep going, this will be peaking a lot of people.

It's a scientific, verifiable fact though.

You can 'disagree' with that all you like, but no one needs to take your disagreement seriously. Like flat earthers.

Where are all these men that are barging into womens toilets? I'm absolutely ancient and I've never yet seen one. The way this board goes on about them you'd think there were hoardes of them battering down the doors 🤣

Most men don't. Most men accept that women's spaces are for women.

Unfortunately there is a cohort that seem to think it's ok for a man to be in a women's spaces when they are wearing a dress. Or lipstick.
Don't you read the papers? Have you not heard about the toilet protests? Are you even being serious?
This is why the Supreme Court had to clarify the law.
But maybe you think because you haven't come across it, other people should ignore it?

Yeah but you make mince look skinny so…….

Hey OP! People using a toilet are service users. People being paid to clean a toilet are contracted employees. Services can be provided single sex. HTH.

(if the person cleaning the toilet stays in there cleaning all day and doesn’t leave, I’d suggest alerting someone)