Are toilets still allowed to be cleaned by members of the opposite sex?

[PoisedRubyLion]

I see signs saying toilets may be cleaned by members of the opposite sex in a lot of places. Is this allowed after the supreme court ruling? If a male cleaner was in there it would be a mixed sex space.

Who knows? It’s not my job to police who’s trans. People are what they say they are innit?

Oh no, no. It wasn't us who chanted 'acceptance without question'. We kept getting told 'they're trans, who are you to question it'.

I think your question is reasonable. There have been odd occasions where I have needed the extra space outside the cubicles to adjust clothing or spot clean something that has period blood leaked onto it etc. This is when I need a woman only space.
I don't mind so much when the sign is temporary so you are forewarned of a male operative although I'd prefer female only staff. I am definitely uncomfortable if the sign is permanently there and you don't know whether a man will suddenly appear or not. I don't care if anyone thinks I'm unreasonable btw; that's how how I feel and what I need from a women's toilet.

I’m certain some people did say that. And I think it’s complete BS. This is why I think proper gate keeping and assessment is needed for access to transition. No self-id rubbish.

I know some people here would say I’m a trans ally or a TRA, but I fit more towards the GC side than TRA side, while still believing there is a way forward that can work for everyone.

That is the 6 million dollar question, as is how do you tell them apart?

The same question is how do you tell the difference between which men will attack women and those who won't?
The answer is: you can't which is why all men are by law excluded from female single sex spaces.

I actually dread to ask but what would be entailed in 'proper gate keeping and assessment' for access to transition?

As a first step, stop the ‘informed consent’ private clinics. There should be psychological assessments and other mental health conditions should be well controlled.

But male on male violence is not women’s problem to solve is it? Are you suggesting that women should be used as human shields to prevent TW from being asssulted by men? You do realise that if you make app spaces mixed sex, I e by allowing TW in, then there is no way to keep any msn it, so the same men TW are afraid of will be in those spaces.

Nobody has been able to accurately answer why a woman would be a fearful of a trans woman in a toilet when she’s in a vulnerable state, and not a male cleaner.

yes they have, what's wrong with your eyes?

I was at the hospital the other day desperate for a quick pee before my imminent appointment. The nearest toilet was being cleaned by a gentleman I asked him if I could possibly pop in ..he said it was okay. He continued mopping and I peed. No issue on either side. Male cleaners have always cleaned toilets doubt they're doing it for any sort of fetish.

And my second question. Human beings cannot change sex. There is no such thing as 'transitioning' into the opposite sex. So why should women welcome men who have (possibly) had extreme cosmetic surgery, take wrong sex hormones and wear stereotypically female clothing into single sex space? Essentially because the men's feelings would be hurt?

Why are men's feelings more important than women's safety and dignity?

That’s extremely rude. And no, they haven’t.

Possibly women are fearful of the men deliberately (and in many cases gleefully) invading single sex services and spaces?

There's plenty of 'big game trophy' photos taken in women's toilets by men claiming to be women.

This has been covered.

The male cleaner's presence will be clearly communicated. She can avoid it if she'd prefer.

are you too tired to read the previous posts?
Women are ok with male cleaners doing their job in their loos as they put a sign outside to warn women that they are there. They are there with the permission of the service provider and women have a choice whether to enter, or wait until they're finished.
Males pretending to be female do not have any permission or consent to be in women's spaces. They are breaking the law. They are pushing women's boundaries.
There is a clear difference.
This has been patiently explained many times over the previous pages, yet you seem to have missed it.
Hence my question about your eyes.

or more concisely
Men in our spaces temporarily with our consent to do a job = not scary
Men breaking the law by pretending to be women in order to invade our private spaces = creepy, scary, not ok
Do you understand?

I think you’re assuming every woman has consented to male cleaners being in the space.

Plenty of us are happy to have trans women in the toilets with us, so why isn’t that enough?

Your tone is horrible and rude. I hope you don’t communicate like this in real life.

So- you think that a woman who is running out of a cubicle with her hands covered in period blood and doesn’t want to encounter a man (a scenario frequently used on this site to explain why trans women shouldn’t allowed in women’s spaces) will be okay with it if it’s a cleaner?

Sorry just to clarify that was meant to be in response to this.

Because you don't get to consent on behalf of all women. Did you think you did? 😵‍💫

I did! I don’t consent male cleaners, so does this mean it stops now?

Their presence in that moment won’t be communicated, only the possibility.

This argument is a massive change of tune compared to what’s usually on this site, that a woman should have to make space for a man.

Did that make sense in your head?

There's a sign up, letting you know that there'll be a cleaner there. If you're happy with that, go in. If you aren't you can wait or go elsewhere.

I can't imagine you're actually this stupid, so can you stop being deliberately obtuse thanks?