This year's pride month

[maybeuptight]

Just wondering if anyone thinks it might be different this year?

Last year it felt like you couldn't leave the house in June without encountering rainbow "Love is Love" posters, Tesco sold drag garden gnomes, and bacon lettuce tomato sandwiches turned into LGBT sandwiches in my local shop.

This year some local pride events have reported inadequate funding, and Stonewall have said they are in financial difficulties. But the Supreme Court ruling has also prompted lots of protests, so maybe people will feel motivated to get involved?

Not answering the question.

Just how recent do you think this all is?

Sure, trans women can be lesbians. Or bi. Or straight. Or pansexual. Or ace.

I happen to be a plain old cisgender lesbian. As are the majority of lesbians I know, with one or two exceptions. But according to you we’re all just nasty homophobes.

Sure, trans women can be lesbians.

No they can't. They really, really can't.

Those are heterosexual males that you're insisting are "lesbian".

PlanetJanet would you be intimate with a man who says he's a woman?

But according to India Willoughby and Beth Upton, and umpteen other transactivists, you can still be a bloke with a penis.

May I refer you, yet again, to the Supreme Court confirmation. Men are not lesbians.

Please stay within the law.

For all we know, that is exactly who this poster is.

True, would make sense if PlanetJanet is a man with dysphoria, struggling with reality than only women can be lesbians.

Anyone who thinks men can be lesbians is struggling

If "people can choose whichever sexual partners for whichever reasons they want" why would we have special words for certain choices? What is significant about a lesbian's choices that means she gets a label when someone who, oh I don't know, prefers blondes does not?

As someone who actively uses "lesbian" to describe herself you presumably find meaning in it so what does "lesbian" mean to you? What do you recognise in yourself and others that makes you as a lesbian different from a person who is not a lesbian?

Tbh, it does actually sound like mansplaining. Incessant mansplaining at that.

Try doing online dating as a gay woman, Planette. You're just beseiged by weird men in wigs and lipstick asking why you don't want their 'lady dick' and so much worse.

Somehow, I don't think it's the same on the male gay websites.

With painful irony, this feels disturbingly close to Don't Say Gay.

Gay people who know they are not sexually attracted to the opposite sex regardless of what gender members of that sex may adopt are of course welcome at Pride as long as they never ever ever ask for public recognition that their sexuality exists.

My god, the way you’re all bullying @PlanetJanette and saying she can’t be a real lesbian, just because she holds different views to you…..and you are saying that she’s the homophobe?

To be fair, it is Janette who is saying female people who only fancy female people are not lesbians, just people who happen to only fancy a certain type of person.

I don't think she's homophobic, but I do think she's somewhat biased in whose sexuality gets to be respected and whose doesn't which why I am asking her about that.

Why don’t you think it is that so many gay and lesbian people don’t feel particularly connected to people who identify as transgender, if it’s all one happy community together? Notice you skipped over that, as I assumed you would.

People who use the “once more for the people at the back” cliche like planetjanet usually can’t rationally explain why they think males identifying as women should be regarded as lesbians so they reach for patronising phrases to try and dismiss rational arguments

Janette seems to think the definition of lesbian is someone who calls themself a lesbian.

If a man who happily admits he's a man and presents as a stereotypical man says he's a lesbian, do you see him as a man taking the piss or a fellow lesbian? Not talking about trans here, he's what you would call a cis man.

If PlanetJanet is a woman attracted to women then PJ is a lesbian.
If PJ is a man then he's a man and can never be a lesbian.
If PJ is a woman attracted to men who say they are a woman, she is not a lesbian.
Why do you and PJ not accept lesbians as women attracted to women?
Inclusivity is respecting lesbians' choice to choose women, in the same way heterosexuals can easily and openly choose the opposite sex.

I did answer the question.

The transpeople included in Gay Pride were included because they were gay. Same sex attracted. Because it was Gay Pride, for gay people. They were not included because they were trans, they were included because they were gay. Because, Gay Pride. For gay people.

It's really not complicated.

I have a gay friend. He used to love pride but he and his partner stopped going because ‘it’s been taken over by weirdos’.

I shake my head at any company doing this pathetic virtue signalling. The gay friends I have (and I have a good handful, both male and female) want nothing to do with "pride" and squirm at the idea that people assume they're all the same shouty rainbow hooligan types.

The gay people I am friends with genuinely just want to 'live' and blend into society. They've literally all said that they feel the pride movement is stirring up division and throwing them back in the limelight for all the wrong reasons. I couldn't agree more. I actually fear for my gay friends that the progress of equality, is now going to go backwards because of the shouty flag wielders.

Unfortunately companies and virtue signallers lack critical thinking skills. So they don't realise they're advocating for the shouty blue haired men in dresses etc, whilst ignoring the wishes of a good plenty of actual gay people who that fucking flag is a menace to.

This is as clear as mud.
Are you agreeing that lesbians are women only attracted to other women?
Or do you still mix men in?

I'm genuinely gobsmacked that this org described "LGB views" as something that they want to exclude.

Apart from being illiterate (what even are LGB views? Did they mean LGB people?) they didn't even have the kindness to explain what they meant.

I'm sad that Pride is all about cheering on the homophobes now.

Transwomen can be gay men attracted to other males (so men or other transwomen)

OR

Transwomen can be straight men and are attracted to women.

The whole point here is that lesbians are homoSEXual women. The word SEX is important here. It is not homoGENDERual.

Transwomen can NEVER be lesbians because being transGENDER, they change their gender and CANNOT change sex.

Sex and gender are not the same thing. Sex is biological sex in law in the UK.

Definitions of transwomen as lesbians are by definition, homophobic because they are about the oppression of females sexually attracted only to other females by either marginalising them or trying to coerce them into sex with males.

Words and meanings matter.

HTH.

It's clear to me.

It was much more common for transwomen to be gay (attracted to men) in the past. They knew they were male and understood this, but wanted to be treated as women.

In recent years the trend has been for more transwomen to be straight (attracted to women). They are insistent that they are female and want to be treated like women, but part of this is domination over women. Some of these have a particular thing for lesbians because they are women who are off limits to men and there's something about this they want power over. This is an act of homophobia. And therein lies your issue...