The words that have been pulled over your eyes

[FlirtsWithRhinos]

I initially wrote this as a reply to a thread in relationships, but rather than derail the thread I decided to post it in FWR as a thread in its own right about a common accusation made against gender critical feminists.

It is a response to the claim that the only people who object to the word "cis" are people who deny the existence of trans women, and that such people are transphobes.

"Transphobe", like "trans woman" and indeed "cis woman", are just the words trans activists use to hide what is really going on.

These words exist to hide one simple truth: Trans women are not, in any objective, real way, in any way outside their own heads, in any way that is real to anyone else, any closer to being a woman than any other man is.

"Trans women" in reality are just men who for some reason feel compelled (or sometimes just really want ) to adopt a cross-sex persona playing out whatever their idea of what a woman is.

The words exist to make it sound like a reasonable thing when such men demand that their wives, children, friends and family, colleagues, officials, all of society pretend they are women, let them enter private spaces for women, let them touch or counsel women in roles reserved for women, let them take prizes for women, let them speak for women.

Because we'd never accept that as ok from men. But it's ok for trans women, and if it's not ok that's transphobia.

And we'd never say women in general are more privileged and powerful than men, but call the men trans women and the women cis women and suddenly everyone nods along. And if they don't it's transphobia.

But I don't believe the thing that makes men and women different is our minds. And without that belief, the whole thing falls apart.

Did you make sure to wipe things down afterwards and remove the plastic sheeting to prevent contamination?

someone’s having a lovely afternoon with the role play as an oppressed minority

Would it hurt to pretend to give a shit about other people occasionally between the sneers?

Be less ridiculous and I will find you less funny

Just read what you've written and think about it for a moment...

Not a chance @OldCrone , not a chance

The point is not that there are more men than transwomen and therefore men are more dangerous than transwomen.

It's that when a woman is faced with a man or a transwoman, the chances of him being a physical threat to her are the same.

(In fact, the rates of sex-offending among transwomen appear to be higher than among men in general.)

I know. I am just remembering that this is not a lack of self awareness, it is something else. It is remarkable. It really is.

Err… pot… kettle…. Bruntarse? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Sorry that was to the always empathetic and in no way misogynistic @ButterflyHatched

When men like @ButterflyHatched come to these threads to scold and condescend and throw entitled hyperbole, one should expect pushback on this.

Let me know once you've tried it.

Well seeing a man cannot ever become a woman no matter how much he scrunches up his eyes, crosses his fingers and wishes really really hard… I’ll let you answer your own question.

Seriously. Very few people in this country in 2025 have never been in the same house as a trans person.

You have not got a clue what our lives are like or who we know and interact with. It does not occur to you that many of us have concerns precisely because we have seen the harms done by this ideology to people we care about, to trans-IDing people we know, to the families of trans-IDing people.

This is not theoretical.

I don't know what your life is like. The Mumsnetters I know in real life are either recovering from their past behaviours, or people who dip in and out to comment on threads that especially horrify them. It's just a very different mindset to the kind we generally encounter in daily life - the social circles I exist in nowadays studiously avoid people who do and say things that are harmful to trans people, and find the idea of existing in social spaces that permit those kinds of behaviours to be abhorrent. We've all been in a bit of a daze for the last month, trying to comprehend the utterly bizarre nature of toilet bans in the UK of all places.

It sometimes feels like there are two countries overlapped on top of one another - one consists of people who are safe to be around, and one consists of people who have proven themselves to be active agents of harm to both myself and my friends.

I know a lot of people - cis and trans - who are desperately upset by the Supreme Court ruling, the EHRC guidance that has picked it up and run off with it, and the general rise of horrendous anti-trans rhetoric on both sides of the atlantic.

All this stuff has very real, very unpleasant, and sometimes very final consequences. We have lost people we love very dearly to this, and there is seemingly no end in sight.

recovering from their past behaviours

😂

I've been to hell and back.

And let me tell you, it was wonderful.

toilet bans in the UK of all places.

I’ve got excellent news for you BH! You’re not banned from using public loos, the Gents is right there and perfectly safe for you. So you can dial down the drama now, it’s all going to be fine

“Where we’re going, we won’t need eyes to see.” 😱

A lot more people were desperately upset by the law being broken by single sex spaces not being used properly before the Supreme Court clarified the meaning of ordinary words for the hard of thinking.

Children were sexually assaulted and women were raped when they wouldn’t have been had the law been followed to the letter, so if you have to go a bit further to find a mixed sex loo when you’re next at your local high street then so be it, it’s not a high price to pay.

It sometimes feels like there are two countries overlapped on top of one another - one consists of people who are safe to be around lie about reality, and one consists of people who have proven themselves to be active agents of harm not willing to lie about reality to both myself and my friends.

Looks like we’re role playing ‘oppressed minorities’ again. What fun!

What is an Active Agent of Harm (AAH?)

Is it like Candida?

Or is it like MIB?

I really can't engage any further with this nonsense. I keep hearing Frankie Howerd at the back of my mind, this isn't stable or well stuff.

Active Agents of Harm?

Dear god the DRAMA 😱😱😱

I will never understand why this nonsense has been indulged for so long. The self centredness and constant victimhood is just shocking.

Meanwhile there are poor women locked up in prison cells with men because of this errant bullshit.

It’s very hard to say no to cluster b’s. They don’t care about your feelings and they just keep going. Easier in the short run to give in