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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

458 replies

nauticant · 16/05/2025 10:21

With Anita Rani. I am not expecting much in the way of challenges.

OP posts:
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Hotbathcoldknees · 16/05/2025 19:46

LesserCelandine · 16/05/2025 13:08

Do they still have a pimp on the board? And campaign for removing the right to vote from women in Ireland who object to transideology?

Tell us more please or a link?

KnottyAuty · 16/05/2025 19:47

Hotbathcoldknees · 16/05/2025 19:45

Yes we got a reply but as you'd expect the focus was on the men and how awful life was for them - woman's rights seem less important to AI, we don't see the trans debate as something AI should be involved in - there are so many other more pressing issues around the world - hence we have cancelled our membership.

Why did they intervene in the SC case then? If it’s not important to their work?

And when are they going to publish their contribution? And who wrote it for them? Were they the new Mermaids Trojan horse type move?

KnottyAuty · 16/05/2025 19:49

I listened to Savha this evening and I’m completely baffled. What document did he read? Why is he giving legal advice? I think I’ll email WH to say that they need to add a clarification to the episode that the SC judgement is 88 pages and maybe give a link to where to find it? It’s not as difficult to understand as Sacha made out to be- but clearly we were reading different documents….

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 16/05/2025 19:53

CassOle · 16/05/2025 19:45

Try this one. 😎

That is in-fucking-credible. Thank you - I will be watching that on repeat for the rest of the evening!

TheKeatingFive · 16/05/2025 19:57

It seems that this debate is being had with people who aren't capable of thinking in complex terms about anything.

Instead of understanding that true inclusivity actually depends on a degree of exclusivity (in order to be properly inclusive to women, we sometimes need to keep men out) - they think 'inclusivity' had to mean open to all comers.

Instead of looking at what's good for society at large they think they should 'be kind' to whoever is shouting the loudest or elicits the most social 'credit'.

I am, like Kathleen Stock, getting sick of how god damn thick (and shallow) many on the TRA side appear to be.

CassOle · 16/05/2025 20:00

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 16/05/2025 19:53

That is in-fucking-credible. Thank you - I will be watching that on repeat for the rest of the evening!

This is my favourite Britney mashup.
Enjoy!

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 20:01

CassOle · 16/05/2025 19:45

Try this one. 😎

Brilliant!

I love a good mashup.

This one has the word 'toxins' in it, so I reckon it counts. 😁

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5-09oOx9c

CassOle · 16/05/2025 20:07

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 20:01

Brilliant!

I love a good mashup.

This one has the word 'toxins' in it, so I reckon it counts. 😁

This doesn't even link in the most tenuous way, but I love it, so here it is!

Haulage · 16/05/2025 20:14

Hotbathcoldknees · 16/05/2025 19:46

Tell us more please or a link?

I remember there being a bit of comment about this on Twitter at the time: https://socialistdemocracy.org/RecentArticles/RecentIrishSocialistTDsAndNGOsJoinForcesToDisenfranchiseWomenAndMaterialists.html

EsmeQuibbles · 16/05/2025 20:18

I missed that one Haulage. There's a lot of it about it seems.

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 20:18

Was that relating to Douglas Fox? Re the 'pimp' on the board:

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/douglas-fox

'A motion to the 2008 Amnesty UK AGM calling for the decriminalisation of sex work was put forward by Newcastle City Group of Amnesty, of which Mr Fox was a member. The policy proposed by the Group was rejected by Amnesty UK’s AGM. Instead the AGM then took the decision to call for a policy review, a decision that was opposed - unsuccessfully - by Newcastle City Group and Mr Fox.
The effect of the Amnesty UK AGM decision was to require Amnesty UK's board to ask the governing bodies of the global movement to review our policies. This request was made in 2009 through a motion to the International Council Meeting. Amnesty UK did not call for the decriminalisation of sex work. Ultimately, Amnesty UK did not feel that there was sufficient support for this request, and the request was withdrawn.'

ScrollingLeaves · 16/05/2025 20:22

EsmeQuibbles · 16/05/2025 20:13

https://catwinternational.org/2016/05/its-official-amnesty-international-creates-the-human-right-to-pimp-and-purchase-sexual-acts/

There was this. I think the man responsible for that policy has moved onto another international charity now.
Edited to reply to @Hotbathcoldknees upthread.

Edited

Maybe Woman’s Hour should be reminded about this AI abusive stance towards women when they advocate for brothels, primps and traffickers rather than prostituted women.

Ironically, given AIs championing of Transwomen in women’s spaces, Transwomen around the world are more likely to be abused in the sex trade too ( not in men’s lavatories in the U.K.).

user2848502016 · 16/05/2025 20:23

ScrollingLeaves · 16/05/2025 17:07

Transwomen are still males and have the same rate of criminal behaviour as ordinary males.

They are males when they join women’s sports and win or collide with or thump females.

They are males when they are in NHS women’s changing rooms asking them when they’ll be getting undressed, or telling them how hot and sweaty they are as they strip, and males when they are stealing their privacy in order to validate their narcissistic claims about themselves.

They are males when they make a video of themselves liquidising a cat for a lover, then go and murder another man, and they continue to be male even when they are reported in the news as being a woman.

They are males when they take over a rape crisis centre then tell female rape victims to reframe their trauma and that they enjoyed the sex.

They are males when they take photos of themselves in the women’s ‘bathrooms’ wanking. Or become head of the girl guides while enjoying and publicising their bondage fetish at the same time. Or doing drag story time to little kids in tight sequins and getting an erection.

They are males, willing to rob a child, and quite possibly sometimes fetishists abusing babies by using them for gratification, often when they take up ‘breastfeeding’ babies after ingesting chemicals.

They are males when having lived as males through the ‘60s and rising through the armed services as a male doctor with most female potential counterparts of those days housewives at home, they get praised by the President for being the first woman admiral in the US navy.

A transwoman is a male when he wins the women’s booker prize and a woman does not.

They are males when they rape someone with ‘her penis’ then put on pink tights.

They are males when they rape on a women’s hospital ward where they have been put but are protected from the ensuing police enquiry by hospital staff who tell the police ‘there were no men here’.

They are males when as ‘women’ they continue to watch their wife serve the food and clear it away when a guest has come to visit them as the well known writer they are; and they keep taking their daughter away from boarding schools where she is happy after haggling at headmistresses because they just have to have the upper hand over all women.

They are males when they are on Woman’s Hour telling everyone that women’s rights to privacy dignity and protection from males, including in various settings affecting their life as biological women, are in fact his special rights too as a special sort of man.

The list is long.

Brilliant post @ScrollingLeaves

Haulage · 16/05/2025 20:24

I missed the Douglas Fox thing, maybe a little bit before my peak. Just found a Glinner blog about it and also saw Amnesty denying he’d had anything to do with anything whatsoever, honest guv.

[Edit: Actually well before my peakening - this crap’s been going on for flipping AGES]

Shortshriftandlethal · 16/05/2025 20:29

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:09

I certainly don't think women only spaces should be taken away. But having been on the gay scene for such a long time and around trans people, I recognize their need for protection, too. I don't like to wish harm on anyone (at least those who have not done anything to warrant it).

People withn trans identities do have protection in the equalities act, already. But what they don't have is the protections afforded to the characteristic of 'Sex' unless they are of that sex.

Haulage · 16/05/2025 20:35

What always amazes me is that none of the MRAs who come here to lecture us are ever happy that transmen have had their right to maternity leave and pregnancy employment protections confirmed by the SC ruling. I realise it’s a particularly female concern, but I’d have thought one of them would have realised what that means.

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 20:41

Haulage · 16/05/2025 20:35

What always amazes me is that none of the MRAs who come here to lecture us are ever happy that transmen have had their right to maternity leave and pregnancy employment protections confirmed by the SC ruling. I realise it’s a particularly female concern, but I’d have thought one of them would have realised what that means.

Absolutely.

Lesbians have their rights protected. Transmen have their rights protected.

But alllllll the noise is because men can't access women's changing rooms and toilets whenever they want.

Lalgarh · 16/05/2025 21:17

This is via @greenup on a separate thread.

The LSE Law School had a panel on the Supreme court ruling. It's nearly 2 hours long but goes into detail in the ruling. Panel broadly GC. They had asked trans advocates on but couldn't get any for the timing

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Rightsraptor · 16/05/2025 21:18

I've just caught up with all three.

Oh dear, Amnesty man! Oh dearie, dearie me <walking off, shaking head>. Oh dear.

He really didn't have a fecking clue what he was talking about.

redsplodge · 16/05/2025 21:41

I'm not sure my blood pressure can stand listening to today's WH based on the comments above, but if I do, I'll have this ready to put me in a better mood afterwards. Absolutely bugger all connection to the debate whatsoever, but if we're talking mashups....

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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHQ-9RBzSZU

SternJoyousBee · 16/05/2025 21:56

@ScrollingLeaves stunning post at 1707!

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 16/05/2025 22:11

jenfw · 16/05/2025 13:45

But are they though? Do you have any stats on this? It's a non issue in my opinion. If men want to attack, they will - and the kind that do this, from my experience, aren't going to go to the trouble (or humiliation) of wearing a dress. This discourse is completely distracting from things that are an actual and ubiquitous threat, ie the incels, the Andrew Tate followers. I've seen horrendous things said about women on Facebook. Threats of violence, r*pe, disgustingly misogynistic comments. I've reported a tonne. None have ever been taken down. I've seen and heard boys my son's age (11), saying the most awful things about girls. My friend's daughter, who is 14, had a private Snapchat video of her (which she sent to a straight boy) passed around the whole of the high school. The real, credible, ubiquitous verifiable threat to women and girls is straight men who are not educated / taught to respect women and girls, usually down to historical, cyclical family attitudes / toxic masculinity. In addition to organisations being institutionally misogynist. Jesus, a serving police officer ended the life of an innocent woman walking home. Something is wrong when an organization that is supposed to represent the pinnacle of morality and law causes harm to women. It's 'not a few men wearing a dress' that is a threat to women and girls. It's the macro structure of society and how it embeds misogyny that is the real problem.

‘I've seen horrendous things said about women on Facebook. Threats of violence, r*pe, disgustingly misogynistic comments. I've reported a tonne. None have ever been taken down.’

I’ve seen all of the horrendous things you detail above aimed at JK Rowling and many other prominent women, all from the people who support this ideology that you believe is so harmless, and do you know what the common denominator is? They’re all men, and that’s why they all need to be kept out of women’s spaces.

And by the way, saying ‘if men want to attack they will’ is the most offensive reason for doing nothing to protect women and girls, how dare you suggest that we should just comply to the demands of mentally ill men because they’re going to hurt us anyway, shame on you.

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