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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

458 replies

nauticant · 16/05/2025 10:21

With Anita Rani. I am not expecting much in the way of challenges.

OP posts:
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EsmeQuibbles · 16/05/2025 16:37

JazzyJelly · 16/05/2025 16:20

Perhaps he read every third page?

Yes, it can happen.
The Stonewall version of speedreading.

Seainasive · 16/05/2025 16:38

Just finished listening. That man was profoundly unimpressive. How did he manage to get to be CEO of anything????

TheOtherRaven · 16/05/2025 16:39

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:09

I certainly don't think women only spaces should be taken away. But having been on the gay scene for such a long time and around trans people, I recognize their need for protection, too. I don't like to wish harm on anyone (at least those who have not done anything to warrant it).

Can you find anyone here who does?

Anyway. Back to Amnesty and the guy who hadn't even read the right report before appearing to discuss it.

ScrollingLeaves · 16/05/2025 17:07

jenfw · 16/05/2025 13:45

But are they though? Do you have any stats on this? It's a non issue in my opinion. If men want to attack, they will - and the kind that do this, from my experience, aren't going to go to the trouble (or humiliation) of wearing a dress. This discourse is completely distracting from things that are an actual and ubiquitous threat, ie the incels, the Andrew Tate followers. I've seen horrendous things said about women on Facebook. Threats of violence, r*pe, disgustingly misogynistic comments. I've reported a tonne. None have ever been taken down. I've seen and heard boys my son's age (11), saying the most awful things about girls. My friend's daughter, who is 14, had a private Snapchat video of her (which she sent to a straight boy) passed around the whole of the high school. The real, credible, ubiquitous verifiable threat to women and girls is straight men who are not educated / taught to respect women and girls, usually down to historical, cyclical family attitudes / toxic masculinity. In addition to organisations being institutionally misogynist. Jesus, a serving police officer ended the life of an innocent woman walking home. Something is wrong when an organization that is supposed to represent the pinnacle of morality and law causes harm to women. It's 'not a few men wearing a dress' that is a threat to women and girls. It's the macro structure of society and how it embeds misogyny that is the real problem.

Transwomen are still males and have the same rate of criminal behaviour as ordinary males.

They are males when they join women’s sports and win or collide with or thump females.

They are males when they are in NHS women’s changing rooms asking them when they’ll be getting undressed, or telling them how hot and sweaty they are as they strip, and males when they are stealing their privacy in order to validate their narcissistic claims about themselves.

They are males when they make a video of themselves liquidising a cat for a lover, then go and murder another man, and they continue to be male even when they are reported in the news as being a woman.

They are males when they take over a rape crisis centre then tell female rape victims to reframe their trauma and that they enjoyed the sex.

They are males when they take photos of themselves in the women’s ‘bathrooms’ wanking. Or become head of the girl guides while enjoying and publicising their bondage fetish at the same time. Or doing drag story time to little kids in tight sequins and getting an erection.

They are males, willing to rob a child, and quite possibly sometimes fetishists abusing babies by using them for gratification, often when they take up ‘breastfeeding’ babies after ingesting chemicals.

They are males when having lived as males through the ‘60s and rising through the armed services as a male doctor with most female potential counterparts of those days housewives at home, they get praised by the President for being the first woman admiral in the US navy.

A transwoman is a male when he wins the women’s booker prize and a woman does not.

They are males when they rape someone with ‘her penis’ then put on pink tights.

They are males when they rape on a women’s hospital ward where they have been put but are protected from the ensuing police enquiry by hospital staff who tell the police ‘there were no men here’.

They are males when as ‘women’ they continue to watch their wife serve the food and clear it away when a guest has come to visit them as the well known writer they are; and they keep taking their daughter away from boarding schools where she is happy after haggling at headmistresses because they just have to have the upper hand over all women.

They are males when they are on Woman’s Hour telling everyone that women’s rights to privacy dignity and protection from males, including in various settings affecting their life as biological women, are in fact his special rights too as a special sort of man.

The list is long.

Datun · 16/05/2025 17:09

JustBitetheKnotsOff · 16/05/2025 14:54

Ah. Jen I think you are so indignant because you believe that transgender ideology has NOT already removed single-sex services and facilities from women. But in many places, it has -- my son's sixth form college, for instance, and my daughter's university loos, and as you've heard on this thread, the changing rooms used by the Darlington and the Fife nurses, and the Brighton rape survivors' group.

If you disagree with all of this -- you are saying the same things as Datun.

Incidentally, I've been lurking around FWR for years and I don't ever recall seeing Datun swear. So, well, I guess that's an achievement.

Thanks Justbite.

These days, I actually get more frustrated with the be kinders than I do the misogynists. Because they just don't think.

A bullying, nasty, misogynist being bullying and nasty is expected.

What really takes the bloody biscuit is women being forced into a vulnerable position, stripped of all their protection through something as prosaic as a spot of airy fairy thoughtlessness.

Also, I can't credit Jen with getting me to swear. I'm a natural swearer. Sometimes I even have to take some swearing out. 😁

BundleBoogie · 16/05/2025 17:13

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:02

I'm not sure where you are but the counties around me (I'm landlocked), have all maintained women only spaces, including dv centres. There have been a sprinkling of support for trans people.

That’s good. I think you’ll probably find if you read the policies that most include men in the category of women so while they might claim to provide female only services, they actually don’t.

In various places the Rape Crisis Centres have found their funding to be dependent on including men in the female category.

Imagine being the campaign group that pushed for funding to be removed from women’s Rape Crisis Centres unless they centred men (who may or may not wear dresses, as they’ve pointed out, they don’t owe us gender ‘conforming’ outfits). That’s Stonewall that is.

soupycustard · 16/05/2025 17:13

@ScrollingLeaves
Great post.

Ramblingnamechanger · 16/05/2025 17:18

I thought the later version might have been slightly shorter, but could have been my imagination as I didn’t time either.

LawnBoy · 16/05/2025 17:23

If men want to attack, they will - and the kind that do this, from my experience, aren't going to go to the trouble (or humiliation) of wearing a dress.

Sex crimes frequently go hand in hand with paraphilias such as humiliation or dressing as the opposite sex. It is not uncommon for paraphilias to escalate as the perpetrator seeks out ever more extreme boundaries to transgress (as the old ones stop giving him thrills).

I knew someone like this, mostly indirectly, and he's now in prison for the abuse of a very young child. There was a pattern leading up to his arrest that started with him stealing the clothes of female family members, then wearing them, then various other more extreme paraphilias, and then finally CSA.

LizzieSiddal · 16/05/2025 17:25

I’ve just listened.

What a load of word salad and nonsense.
Re the nurses, he seemed to think everyone is entitled to privacy but nobody should ever be excluded. I’d love to know how on earth he thinks that can be achieved.

soupycustard · 16/05/2025 17:27

BundleBoogie · 16/05/2025 17:13

That’s good. I think you’ll probably find if you read the policies that most include men in the category of women so while they might claim to provide female only services, they actually don’t.

In various places the Rape Crisis Centres have found their funding to be dependent on including men in the female category.

Imagine being the campaign group that pushed for funding to be removed from women’s Rape Crisis Centres unless they centred men (who may or may not wear dresses, as they’ve pointed out, they don’t owe us gender ‘conforming’ outfits). That’s Stonewall that is.

And this is why language is so important.
So to be clear for the 'be kind' people, if places, services, sports etc say they are 'women only', but define 'women' as meaning both 'women' and 'transwomen', women's rights then apply to both women and men.
Which makes a mockery of women's rights. The whole point of equality legislation is to help create a level playing field, not to give males extra rights. That doesn't mean that transwomen can be discriminated against because they have extra rights under the relevant part of the Equality Act relating to gender reassignment. But they can't also have women's rights.As they are male.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 16/05/2025 17:29

Datun · 16/05/2025 17:09

Thanks Justbite.

These days, I actually get more frustrated with the be kinders than I do the misogynists. Because they just don't think.

A bullying, nasty, misogynist being bullying and nasty is expected.

What really takes the bloody biscuit is women being forced into a vulnerable position, stripped of all their protection through something as prosaic as a spot of airy fairy thoughtlessness.

Also, I can't credit Jen with getting me to swear. I'm a natural swearer. Sometimes I even have to take some swearing out. 😁

The other day on here some poster told Datun to educate herself as she apparently knew nothing about this topic - I came over all Michael Corleone saying to Moe Green, "You straightened my brother out?". You told Datun to educate herself???

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 16/05/2025 17:42

jenfw · 16/05/2025 14:12

Why would you embarrass yourself like this? You are a grown woman, hitting those keys and coming out like a child in a high school playground. You don't agree with me - that's fine, but there is no need to spit venom, sarcasm and childishness out in response.

Sarcasm, granted. Venom - where? Childishness - not what I'd call it, but JazzyJelly's reponse to you was entirely deserved. May I suggest that you turn your superior intellect to re-reading your own posts critically?

Datun · 16/05/2025 17:43

ifIwerenotanandroid · 16/05/2025 17:29

The other day on here some poster told Datun to educate herself as she apparently knew nothing about this topic - I came over all Michael Corleone saying to Moe Green, "You straightened my brother out?". You told Datun to educate herself???

Haha!!

That's the other thing that TRAs will never get. The solidarity on here. 😁

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 16/05/2025 18:10

Why would you embarrass yourself like this? You are a grown woman, hitting those keys and coming out like a child in a high school playground. You don't agree with me - that's fine, but there is no need to spit venom, sarcasm and childishness out in response

Off to join you looking for some shiny things girl

you go first

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 18:51

Sometimes I even have to take some swearing out. 😁

Holy fuck.

Datun · 16/05/2025 18:52

I know right!

I'm positively fricking restrained

Hotbathcoldknees · 16/05/2025 19:01

We used to be AI supporters - we have donated for 30 years. We wrote to them to question why women's rights were not important to them and how this is their battle. When he was asked by Anita how his supporters viewed the SC's decision, I doubt we were alone in feeling infuriated by AI's involvement but ignored as usual.

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 16/05/2025 19:14

I think one of the things that winds me up most is those posters who come on here to have a pop

they call everyone transphobic, witter on about how lovely they are wanting gender neutral spaces as well as female own spaces, completely failing to understand that thats what the vast majority of us want and have been saying for fucking years

why the fuck do some posters on here think they have invented the

EsmeQuibbles · 16/05/2025 19:15

Did you get a reply to your letter @Hotbathcoldknees ?
I feel that Amnesty have really lost their way.

TheKeatingFive · 16/05/2025 19:35

jenfw · 16/05/2025 13:51

In addition, what is your stance on intersex people who have both sexual organs?

I'm late to this party, but just want to make it clear that this applies to absolutely no one.

KnottyAuty · 16/05/2025 19:43

LawnBoy · 16/05/2025 17:23

If men want to attack, they will - and the kind that do this, from my experience, aren't going to go to the trouble (or humiliation) of wearing a dress.

Sex crimes frequently go hand in hand with paraphilias such as humiliation or dressing as the opposite sex. It is not uncommon for paraphilias to escalate as the perpetrator seeks out ever more extreme boundaries to transgress (as the old ones stop giving him thrills).

I knew someone like this, mostly indirectly, and he's now in prison for the abuse of a very young child. There was a pattern leading up to his arrest that started with him stealing the clothes of female family members, then wearing them, then various other more extreme paraphilias, and then finally CSA.

Your username LOLOLOL

Hotbathcoldknees · 16/05/2025 19:45

EsmeQuibbles · 16/05/2025 19:15

Did you get a reply to your letter @Hotbathcoldknees ?
I feel that Amnesty have really lost their way.

Yes we got a reply but as you'd expect the focus was on the men and how awful life was for them - woman's rights seem less important to AI, we don't see the trans debate as something AI should be involved in - there are so many other more pressing issues around the world - hence we have cancelled our membership.

CassOle · 16/05/2025 19:45

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 15:52

Happy Friday!

Try this one. 😎

Kucinghitam · 16/05/2025 19:46

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 16/05/2025 19:14

I think one of the things that winds me up most is those posters who come on here to have a pop

they call everyone transphobic, witter on about how lovely they are wanting gender neutral spaces as well as female own spaces, completely failing to understand that thats what the vast majority of us want and have been saying for fucking years

why the fuck do some posters on here think they have invented the

They're the BeKind equivalent of the geniuses who breeze in to say "Cancel the cheque!" on Page 9 of Thread 12, apparently believing that they are the very first person to have thought of the absolutely blinding obvious despite the situation having gone on for a decade and so starry-eyed in their eagerness to share this nugget of wisdom with the world that they can't waste a moment reading the bloody thread.

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