Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

[nauticant]

With Anita Rani. I am not expecting much in the way of challenges.

Anyway, to get back to the original thread.

As I didn't manage to listen to WH, were there any questions at the end pertaining to AI's performance? Maybe someone pointing out he wasn't making any sense?

Or is that too much to hope for?

You think men like Cameron Downing being able to self ID into a women's rape crisis centre is a 'non issue'?

Can you really, genuinely not understand why rape survivors might want to law to be clear that if a service is advertised as single sex, it really means single sex?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/17/predator-cameron-downing-trans-inclusive-rape-crisis-centre/

This thread is very nostalgic - all the tired old gotchas.

Even clearer - trans people with GRCs aren’t entitled to be in women’s single sex spaces.

… The self-ID case was lost a couple of years ago saying the same….

trans people are entitled to privacy & dignity - just not at other people’s expense

Almost as if someone didn't want us to discuss Amnesty International and Women's Hour, and how appalling their (AI) spokesperson was today.

My experience chimes with @Toseland
Validation and intimidation has ALWAYS been the agenda; even in the early days many of these men were straight up fetishists. It was very clear.

@jenfw it may interest you to know then that of the UK male population currently imprisoned for rape and sexual assault, a far higher % of those men identify as transwomen than exist in the general male population.

Men who fall under Stonewall's definition of the 'trans umbrella' are also disproportionately represented in known male serial killers than in the gen pop.

So the women’s sexual abuse charity you work with has set up a third space geared to the needs of trans people? Wonderful! We might need those for prisons, domestic violence shelters, changing rooms and toilets too. And categories in competitive sports.

I think you’ll find they are absolutely not provided in some areas. In Sussex there is an upcoming court case precisely because a Rape Crisis service is refusing to provide a single sex counselling session for female victims. They provide male only, trans only and mixed sex sessions that include men who identify as women (no dresses required).

This is typical of many centres throughout the UK.

Ah. Jen I think you are so indignant because you believe that transgender ideology has NOT already removed single-sex services and facilities from women. But in many places, it has -- my son's sixth form college, for instance, and my daughter's university loos, and as you've heard on this thread, the changing rooms used by the Darlington and the Fife nurses, and the Brighton rape survivors' group.

If you disagree with all of this -- you are saying the same things as Datun.

Incidentally, I've been lurking around FWR for years and I don't ever recall seeing Datun swear. So, well, I guess that's an achievement.

Bizarrely it’s still not available for download. Maybe the BBC have realised how bad AI came across and someone’s kicking up a fuss?

Does anyone know why I can't watch it on catch up yet please?

Yes, as the CEO of the charity, which has been going for over 40 years, is a lesbian. She wants protection for everyone at risk of violence. They also provide rehabilitation for offenders, who are 99.9 per cent straight men.

I'm not sure where you are but the counties around me (I'm landlocked), have all maintained women only spaces, including dv centres. There have been a sprinkling of support for trans people.

If you are following this issue closely enough to be participating in these discussions then you ought to be well aware of several high profile cases in which single sex spaces have been destroyed - illegally, it is now confirmed - and that it's happening in many other places too. (You'd also know "intersex" is outdated, offensive bunkum and if you're in favour of single sex plus third spaces, it's hard to see why you thought DSDs were relevant at all.)

However, if you're truly in favour of good provisions of single plus mixed sex facilities, then great, the terfs are behind you. The TRAs are not, though, so the best use of your resources is to persuade them.

How do you define ‘lesbian’ @jenfw ?

Trans rights activists think that the term lesbian includes trans-identifying males, the vast majority of whom have not had reassignment surgery on their genitals and expect that lesbian women accept their ‘lady dick’. Lesbian dating apps have been flooded with such men and lesbians have been told they are ‘sexual racists’ because they are only attracted to female bodies. How is this ok?

Edinburgh rape crisis centre didn't maintain single sex spaces and had a male ceo who said that women using their services would be challenged on their prejudices* and should reframe their trauma. They wouldn't even confirm to women using their services that they would only be seen by a woman

*that prejudice being that they don't believe TWAW

Yes, we’ve all seen women being threatened with rape and death online, often from TRAs funnily enough. As you appear to be part of that community, you should probably address that if you want to support women.

Tone comes across in writing. Often received quite differently to how we thought we were expressing ourselves. Unfortunately you made a number of snarky remarks up thread. You can’t reasonably complain now you’re receiving some back. To say “I’ve not read your comment but…. “ then (paraphrasing) accuse that person of not listening to your arguments is completely double standards. This is supposed to be a thread about a conversation on Woman’s Hour and you arrived saying it was a waste of time (we should be concerned about Andrew Tate) but your wasting our time not talking about the thread topic. In the politest way possible- why not leave this thread and find one on Andrew Tate as I’d like to get back to Amnesty and you’re not contributing much to that. Have a good day!

That bloke was the CEO of Amnesty wasn't he? He earns a hell of a salary on the back of donations. I'm glad I stopped mine and sent them elsewhere.
He used to work for War Child UK.( Which had a bribery scandal way back, don't know if he was there then.)
He was blooming appalling today. What bullshit he talked.
He had clearly not even read the Judgement despite AI having made submissions to the SC. Full of his own importance and iffy staments that don't stand up to scrutiny.

I certainly don't think women only spaces should be taken away. But having been on the gay scene for such a long time and around trans people, I recognize their need for protection, too. I don't like to wish harm on anyone (at least those who have not done anything to warrant it).

Sadly so many of these CEOs circulate round charities leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.

Full of his own importance and iffy staments that don't stand up to scrutiny.

There's an awful lot of it about.

Sadly so many of these CEOs circulate round charities leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.

Don't they just? Then onto the next charity. Leaving the rest of us to reframe our trauma.

I believe in women only spaces AND gender neutral spaces, which would provide support for everyone who needs it.