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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SC-Fuelled Bathroom Aggression

853 replies

BisiBodi · 15/05/2025 06:38

Firstly, this thread is for open discussion on a specific topic, stated at the end. It is not a thread that sits in judgement, or calls for people to sit in judgement, of the Supreme Court finding.

Now, read that first sentence again before proceeding.

So, I am posting this with the full permission of the individual concerned, whose photograph - again posted with their permission - is on the thread. The reason for that photograph will become evident soon.

Caz is a cis woman and a very, very successful music producer and DJ in London. She has recently been very vocal online about a recent incident that was almost certainly created as a result of the SC ruling and the subsequent interpretation by certain members of society. Here is her original post:

"This photo of me was taken a few days ago. This is what I look like, not that it matters, but to set the scene…
I was at the Festival Hall. Toilets on either side of two lifts - men’s on one side, women’s on the other. I was in the queue for the women’s. Men were queueing across from me.
I was facing into the bathroom, so from behind, you couldn’t see my face. I was just standing there, minding my business, when I heard someone shout,
“The men’s toilets are over here!”
I ignored it at first thinking someone was letting their mate know. But he kept shouting it "The men's toilet are this side!". Then I felt a tap on my shoulder, (meaning he came into the corridor of the women's toilets), he poked me and said
“Do you realise this is the women’s toilet?!”
Up to that point, he hadn’t seen my face. So what was he judging me on? My haircut? My hoodie?
Also, I was surrounded by women. It was pretty obvious I knew which toilet it was.
His energy was aggressive. I was shocked. I looked him straight in the face and asked: “What sex do you think I am?” Affronted he said: “I don’t know!”
Here’s where I wish I’d said, “If you don’t know, then shut the f**k up!”
But instead, I said: “Would you like to see my tits?”
I started unzipping my hoodie. He panicked: “No no no, don’t do that!”
His wife came out of the loo and saw what was going down and said with urgency, “Let’s go now!.”
She rushed him away before all the ladies around me could properly react. They were horrified by what they saw. One lovely lady said to me, "I can’t believe what I just saw!" Another one said, “I am so, so sorry you had to experience that. I held back from speaking up till it was too late because when he came and touched you, I thought he must have known you.” Another woman said, "You are welcome here!" and yet another said, "You must report him and get him kicked out!" I stood there, shocked, and unfortunately didn’t react quickly enough.
What’s interesting is that he wasn’t a staff member. He was just a random member of the public.
Also, my attire was more on the masculine side. So if he thought I was a trans woman, why would I be dressing like a man? If he thought I was a trans man, then under the new rules, I was in the right toilet!
His policing was based on my hair? My clothes? Maybe I had cancer? Or maybe I just like my hair that way. What makes him think any of that gives him the right to behave like that?!
It is fair to say also that I could have been a butch trans women but that is the whole point, you can't judge from a hair cut several meters away and its not anyone's place to.
For the record, I’m not offended by being thought to be a man. I have a strong male energy, (female too sometimes!). However I often feel if I could press a button and turn into a man I might, I don’t feel like I’ve earned the right to call myself trans, given the immense things people go through to be right in their body… but in spirit perhaps I am. Asides this I am a 100% biological born unchanged female.
What was offensive was his assumption that this kind of behaviour is OK.
This is what these new laws and rules are doing — they’re not making it safer for everyone. They’re fuelling public entitlement and policing of gender expression.
Afterwards, I tried to find them. I thought maybe it would help to have a conversation. To understand. Did he think he was protecting his wife? What made him do that?
I’ve been meaning to speak out on this issue for a while. But I’ve had a lot going on, it’s been a difficult time and I haven’t felt I had the head space.
In a strange way, I’m grateful for this moment. It gave me the push I needed to finally say something.
I genuinely believe there’s misunderstanding from a few of the much older cis community about what it means to be trans. I mean this compassionately, It is just something they do not understand and it frightens them. I wish I’d got to talk to that guy… open conversations are needed to understand what fears are fuelling their prejudice."

Again, the purpose of this thread is not to pass judgement on whether the SC ruling was right or wrong, everybody has their own opinions on that, but rather to open a dialogue on - and raise awareness of - the effect that that ruling is having on the small but disproportionately loud and aggressive members of society, and the fear being generated as a result.

Speaking personally, I am hearing many reports of bathroom aggression - perpetrated by both men and women - against anyone who doesn't 'look right', regardless of the facts or a sense of common respect for others.
Now that the ruling has passed, I think that as women the best we can do here - the absolute bare minimum if we want to consider ourselves reasonable, respectful members of society - is to be aware that this kind of horror does happen and is happening, and to call out that bullshit if we encounter it.

I'd be interested in your thoughts...

SC-Fuelled Bathroom Aggression
OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
TonTonMacoute · 15/05/2025 09:59

To blame the recent ruling (and women) for a man behaving like an aggressive twat about something that had nothing to do with him is absolutely typical of the pass agg, cry bully tactics of the TRA playbook.

thenoisiesttermagant · 15/05/2025 10:00

So man being aggressive because other aggressive men have overstepped boundaries and he's not happy about it and getting confused means that women should accept men - with their much greater propensity to be aggressive, and statistically a threat - into their spaces?

In TRA land this bloke being aggressive can just say he identifies as Gina now and he's in the women's too. How does this help women? Surely this whole story is even more evidence that women's spaces a)need to be single sex only and b) if they are single sex only, everything will be better because people will be able to trust that most people will obey the law and act like decent people.

The problem here is everyone is waking up to having been lied to and the harms as a result of that - such as the child attacked by Dolatowski in a falsely labelled 'woman's' toilet in Morrisons.

I am wondering actually now that more people are aware that the NHS has no single sex spaces, even though they're trying to deceive patients by labelling them as such, might mean a huge influx of Dads being gender fluid just long enough to ensure their girls can go to the toilet safely and protect against the Dolatowskis out there.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/05/2025 10:00

Great thread. The lack of critical thinking and embedded misogyny in the opening post is predictable. Some people never tire of holding women to account for men's behaviour.

Kucinghitam · 15/05/2025 10:01
Recover Falling Down GIF

Live footage of the OP.

MarieDeGournay · 15/05/2025 10:01

SC-fuelled bathroom aggression?

'Don't blame it on the sunshine
Don't blame it on the moonlight
Don't blame it on the good times
Blame it on the Supreme Court ruling'
😂

Kitte321 · 15/05/2025 10:01

The whole post is sanctimonious, condescending and offensive.
Using the term ‘Cis woman’ which assumes we all sign up to the same gender ideology- newsflash - we don’t.
Being instructed about what we are allowed to comment on and think in the first paragraph - not cool.
The casual ageism thrown in assuming that the ‘older cis community’ must be lacking in understanding because we are far too prejudiced. Of course, we require Caz to enlighten us to her far more developed views.

Honestly, I was never hugely engaged in the gender critical debate previously but the gaslighting and condescension from the ‘woke’ community must stop. We just believe that a man is a man (and vice versa), that biological sex cant change (fact) and the rights of women to women’s only spaces must be protected.
I still really struggle to see how any of the above provokes such debate 🤷‍♀️

Kitte321 · 15/05/2025 10:02

The whole post is sanctimonious, condescending and offensive.
Using the term ‘Cis woman’ which assumes we all sign up to the same gender ideology- newsflash - we don’t.
Being instructed about what we are allowed to comment on and think in the first paragraph - not cool.
The casual ageism thrown in assuming that the ‘older cis community’ must be lacking in understanding because we are far too prejudiced. Of course, we require Caz to enlighten us to her far more developed views.

Honestly, I was never hugely engaged in the gender critical debate previously but the gaslighting and condescension from the ‘woke’ community must stop. We just believe that a man is a man (and vice versa), that biological sex cant change (fact) and the rights of women to women’s only spaces must be protected.
I still really struggle to see how any of the above provokes such debate 🤷‍♀️

Kitte321 · 15/05/2025 10:02

The whole post is sanctimonious, condescending and offensive.
Using the term ‘Cis woman’ which assumes we all sign up to the same gender ideology- newsflash - we don’t.
Being instructed about what we are allowed to comment on and think in the first paragraph - not cool.
The casual ageism thrown in assuming that the ‘older cis community’ must be lacking in understanding because we are far too prejudiced. Of course, we require Caz to enlighten us to her far more developed views.

Honestly, I was never hugely engaged in the gender critical debate previously but the gaslighting and condescension from the ‘woke’ community must stop. We just believe that a man is a man (and vice versa), that biological sex cant change (fact) and the rights of women to women’s only spaces must be protected.
I still really struggle to see how any of the above provokes such debate 🤷‍♀️

aylis · 15/05/2025 10:05

TonTonMacoute · 15/05/2025 09:59

To blame the recent ruling (and women) for a man behaving like an aggressive twat about something that had nothing to do with him is absolutely typical of the pass agg, cry bully tactics of the TRA playbook.

Yep. The sexism inherent in blaming women for mens behaviour.

drspouse · 15/05/2025 10:06

The point here is a) men are aggressive and b) women know who a woman is.

ThatCyanCat · 15/05/2025 10:06

God what a long-winded text fart about the Transman Gotcha, which doesn't even apply since that person isn't trans and is quite clearly a woman.

UpsideDownChairs · 15/05/2025 10:06

I genuinely believe there’s misunderstanding from a few of the much older cis community about what it means to be trans. I mean this compassionately, It is just something they do not understand and it frightens them.

Jesus Christ. Can you try and be more patronising? The poor baffled old dears, just don't get it and they're scared by all the blue hair and nose rings.

You know that when I was a child, there was only black and white TV, phone numbers had 4 digits, and we still looked them up in a big book. I remember buying an early microwave, when cars first got automatic windscreen wipers, and I can use a manual choke to start a car. The amount of change us out of touch old women have been through is mind-boggling - a bit of hair dye and exogenous hormones really don't throw us at all.

Fuck me. Trans is scary, my arse.

Ddakji · 15/05/2025 10:07

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

FlakyCritic · 15/05/2025 10:11

UpsideDownChairs · 15/05/2025 10:06

I genuinely believe there’s misunderstanding from a few of the much older cis community about what it means to be trans. I mean this compassionately, It is just something they do not understand and it frightens them.

Jesus Christ. Can you try and be more patronising? The poor baffled old dears, just don't get it and they're scared by all the blue hair and nose rings.

You know that when I was a child, there was only black and white TV, phone numbers had 4 digits, and we still looked them up in a big book. I remember buying an early microwave, when cars first got automatic windscreen wipers, and I can use a manual choke to start a car. The amount of change us out of touch old women have been through is mind-boggling - a bit of hair dye and exogenous hormones really don't throw us at all.

Fuck me. Trans is scary, my arse.

They attack elders. They don't understand elders are wiser and have more experience and wisdom. They just make themselves look uneducated, naive and ignorant. The lack of respect for our elders, for those who have come before us, is shocking. Probably reflects a poor upbringing from their parents. They are young and think they know everything. How foolish and ignorant they are.

Kucinghitam · 15/05/2025 10:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

SinKlaire · 15/05/2025 10:12

Agreed, the bigoted ageism from the OP is disgusting.

ThatCyanCat · 15/05/2025 10:13

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, OP

I rather think we've suffered enough.

Sortumn · 15/05/2025 10:14

@DdakjiCaz shared the story originally.

Burntt · 15/05/2025 10:14

I saw a comment on another forum where similar was being discussed. The commenter pointed out that in every example she has read of natal women being challenged the aggressor has been a man.

this is just another example of men as the problem. Men punishing women for not being feminine enough. A problem exacerbated by the sexist stonewall law and gender ideology.

this is not due to the SC ruling.

i had a butch lesbian friend 20 years ago who would not go to the public toilet alone as she was almost always challenged (she did look like a man at first glance). The few times I was with her when it happened the WOMAN who challenged her did it without agression and the second she spoke to say “I’m a woman” immediately apologised because it was fucking obvious after the first glance.

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/05/2025 10:14

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

No - I’ve just tracked it back to Caz’s FB page, & it turned out we even had a couple of mutuals, so that doesn’t work.

MyOtherCarIsAPorsche · 15/05/2025 10:14

Cis🙄

chibsortig · 15/05/2025 10:15

I have been to many concerts, pubs, clubs where most people dress 'alternative' lots of short hair, undercuts, men with long hair, females wearing hoodies and jeans and in all my time I've never seen anyone challenged over which gender toilets they've queued for. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never witnessed it even in normal every day situations. No one is actively watching toilets to make sure the correct people are using the right ones. I feel like posts like this are fearmongering.
I don't want anyone to feel unsafe for using the toilet that suits them however I wish men would stop trying to erode women's rights that we fought so hard for.
I don't understand why they don't want to fight for their own safe spaces, I'd stand side by side with them for that but I can't standby and whilst they trample female rights.

Szygy · 15/05/2025 10:16

I don’t really know why I’m even bothering to repeat what so many others have said but why would anyone think this was anything other than a woman? Why have so many people like the OP apparently lost the ability - which even all infants have - to tell a man from a woman?

Also - I have a strong male energy, (female too sometimes!). WTF is that supposed to mean?

Helleofabore · 15/05/2025 10:16

I just am admiring all the wonderful new user names posting on this thread.

Thanks OP. It is marvellous to see.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 15/05/2025 10:17

Sortumn · 15/05/2025 10:14

@DdakjiCaz shared the story originally.

Do you have the link to hand where Caz shares her story??