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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SC-Fuelled Bathroom Aggression

853 replies

BisiBodi · 15/05/2025 06:38

Firstly, this thread is for open discussion on a specific topic, stated at the end. It is not a thread that sits in judgement, or calls for people to sit in judgement, of the Supreme Court finding.

Now, read that first sentence again before proceeding.

So, I am posting this with the full permission of the individual concerned, whose photograph - again posted with their permission - is on the thread. The reason for that photograph will become evident soon.

Caz is a cis woman and a very, very successful music producer and DJ in London. She has recently been very vocal online about a recent incident that was almost certainly created as a result of the SC ruling and the subsequent interpretation by certain members of society. Here is her original post:

"This photo of me was taken a few days ago. This is what I look like, not that it matters, but to set the scene…
I was at the Festival Hall. Toilets on either side of two lifts - men’s on one side, women’s on the other. I was in the queue for the women’s. Men were queueing across from me.
I was facing into the bathroom, so from behind, you couldn’t see my face. I was just standing there, minding my business, when I heard someone shout,
“The men’s toilets are over here!”
I ignored it at first thinking someone was letting their mate know. But he kept shouting it "The men's toilet are this side!". Then I felt a tap on my shoulder, (meaning he came into the corridor of the women's toilets), he poked me and said
“Do you realise this is the women’s toilet?!”
Up to that point, he hadn’t seen my face. So what was he judging me on? My haircut? My hoodie?
Also, I was surrounded by women. It was pretty obvious I knew which toilet it was.
His energy was aggressive. I was shocked. I looked him straight in the face and asked: “What sex do you think I am?” Affronted he said: “I don’t know!”
Here’s where I wish I’d said, “If you don’t know, then shut the f**k up!”
But instead, I said: “Would you like to see my tits?”
I started unzipping my hoodie. He panicked: “No no no, don’t do that!”
His wife came out of the loo and saw what was going down and said with urgency, “Let’s go now!.”
She rushed him away before all the ladies around me could properly react. They were horrified by what they saw. One lovely lady said to me, "I can’t believe what I just saw!" Another one said, “I am so, so sorry you had to experience that. I held back from speaking up till it was too late because when he came and touched you, I thought he must have known you.” Another woman said, "You are welcome here!" and yet another said, "You must report him and get him kicked out!" I stood there, shocked, and unfortunately didn’t react quickly enough.
What’s interesting is that he wasn’t a staff member. He was just a random member of the public.
Also, my attire was more on the masculine side. So if he thought I was a trans woman, why would I be dressing like a man? If he thought I was a trans man, then under the new rules, I was in the right toilet!
His policing was based on my hair? My clothes? Maybe I had cancer? Or maybe I just like my hair that way. What makes him think any of that gives him the right to behave like that?!
It is fair to say also that I could have been a butch trans women but that is the whole point, you can't judge from a hair cut several meters away and its not anyone's place to.
For the record, I’m not offended by being thought to be a man. I have a strong male energy, (female too sometimes!). However I often feel if I could press a button and turn into a man I might, I don’t feel like I’ve earned the right to call myself trans, given the immense things people go through to be right in their body… but in spirit perhaps I am. Asides this I am a 100% biological born unchanged female.
What was offensive was his assumption that this kind of behaviour is OK.
This is what these new laws and rules are doing — they’re not making it safer for everyone. They’re fuelling public entitlement and policing of gender expression.
Afterwards, I tried to find them. I thought maybe it would help to have a conversation. To understand. Did he think he was protecting his wife? What made him do that?
I’ve been meaning to speak out on this issue for a while. But I’ve had a lot going on, it’s been a difficult time and I haven’t felt I had the head space.
In a strange way, I’m grateful for this moment. It gave me the push I needed to finally say something.
I genuinely believe there’s misunderstanding from a few of the much older cis community about what it means to be trans. I mean this compassionately, It is just something they do not understand and it frightens them. I wish I’d got to talk to that guy… open conversations are needed to understand what fears are fuelling their prejudice."

Again, the purpose of this thread is not to pass judgement on whether the SC ruling was right or wrong, everybody has their own opinions on that, but rather to open a dialogue on - and raise awareness of - the effect that that ruling is having on the small but disproportionately loud and aggressive members of society, and the fear being generated as a result.

Speaking personally, I am hearing many reports of bathroom aggression - perpetrated by both men and women - against anyone who doesn't 'look right', regardless of the facts or a sense of common respect for others.
Now that the ruling has passed, I think that as women the best we can do here - the absolute bare minimum if we want to consider ourselves reasonable, respectful members of society - is to be aware that this kind of horror does happen and is happening, and to call out that bullshit if we encounter it.

I'd be interested in your thoughts...

SC-Fuelled Bathroom Aggression
OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Alucard55 · 15/05/2025 22:00

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 21:49

So hang on.... just so I understand-
Some people on here are thinking that a trans woman would go through years, if not decades of denial / inner turmoil and questioning followed by months or years of anxiety & mental trauma for fear of judgement telling all those around them that they would like to transition and risking losing relationships / jobs etc etc ...........
....... all because they want to sneak into the loo or changing room on the off chance they might catch a glimpse of your flabby arse...?
Haha

No we just think they are men and should not be in women's single sex spaces.

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:01

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

So what's the issue with trans women using womens bathrooms and changing spaces then if you aren't concerned with them being around other women in those environments?

Because it seems to be a huge issue on here but no one is stating what they are actually concerned about/ afraid of happening on that circumstance.

Are you afraid a trans woman is actually a man in disguise just trying to leer at you?
Ridiculous.
I don't see any real reasons- just transphobic comments.

People are afraid of what they don't understand.

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:03

@Seethlaw

Have you ever been in contact or had a meaningful conversation with a trans person?
I'm guessing not.

Alucard55 · 15/05/2025 22:04

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:01

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

So what's the issue with trans women using womens bathrooms and changing spaces then if you aren't concerned with them being around other women in those environments?

Because it seems to be a huge issue on here but no one is stating what they are actually concerned about/ afraid of happening on that circumstance.

Are you afraid a trans woman is actually a man in disguise just trying to leer at you?
Ridiculous.
I don't see any real reasons- just transphobic comments.

People are afraid of what they don't understand.

It's very simple. We do not want biological men in our single sex spaces. These are spaces and categories designated for biological women only. That means no biological men are allowed.

Greyskybluesky · 15/05/2025 22:04

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:03

@Seethlaw

Have you ever been in contact or had a meaningful conversation with a trans person?
I'm guessing not.

😂 ha ha ha!

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/05/2025 22:05

WithSilverBells · 15/05/2025 21:59

It kinda makes sense. Otherwise you could end up arguing with yourself😂

I assume they put a stop to it so people couldn't pretend to be several different people at once to defend their own arguments or pile on another poster or something.

It's actually very difficult not to get caught out though.

I did it on a thread where we were talking about how annoying it is when a woman says something and gets ignored and then a man comes and says the same thing and everyone listens. My username at the time was a first name and surname like Jane Bloggs, so I changed my name to Joe Bloggs and came back on the thread pretending to be Jane's husband here to mansplain. But it was impossible to remember which name I was supposed to be posting under. 😅

WithSilverBells · 15/05/2025 22:05

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:03

@Seethlaw

Have you ever been in contact or had a meaningful conversation with a trans person?
I'm guessing not.

😂😂😂

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/05/2025 22:05

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:03

@Seethlaw

Have you ever been in contact or had a meaningful conversation with a trans person?
I'm guessing not.

loooooooool

spannasaurus · 15/05/2025 22:05

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:03

@Seethlaw

Have you ever been in contact or had a meaningful conversation with a trans person?
I'm guessing not.

😂

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:06

@zerofeeling how the hell would you know what they've been though??

Do they know your past? All the things you've been through in your life?

What an incredibly dim assumption to make.

ArabellaScott · 15/05/2025 22:06

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 21:49

So hang on.... just so I understand-
Some people on here are thinking that a trans woman would go through years, if not decades of denial / inner turmoil and questioning followed by months or years of anxiety & mental trauma for fear of judgement telling all those around them that they would like to transition and risking losing relationships / jobs etc etc ...........
....... all because they want to sneak into the loo or changing room on the off chance they might catch a glimpse of your flabby arse...?
Haha

The transwoman I met masturbating in the ladies had spent at least half an hour getting dressed and putting on a wig and lipstick, I suppose. No idea how much turmoil he'd gone through. I just left as quickly as I could.

Alucard55 · 15/05/2025 22:06

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:03

@Seethlaw

Have you ever been in contact or had a meaningful conversation with a trans person?
I'm guessing not.

I don't mean to talk for @Seethlaw but personally I've had lots of contact and conversations with biological men.

Seethlaw · 15/05/2025 22:06

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:03

@Seethlaw

Have you ever been in contact or had a meaningful conversation with a trans person?
I'm guessing not.

I'm trans...

ArabellaScott · 15/05/2025 22:06

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:03

@Seethlaw

Have you ever been in contact or had a meaningful conversation with a trans person?
I'm guessing not.

Are you going to tell them, Seethlaw, or shall I?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/05/2025 22:07

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:01

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

So what's the issue with trans women using womens bathrooms and changing spaces then if you aren't concerned with them being around other women in those environments?

Because it seems to be a huge issue on here but no one is stating what they are actually concerned about/ afraid of happening on that circumstance.

Are you afraid a trans woman is actually a man in disguise just trying to leer at you?
Ridiculous.
I don't see any real reasons- just transphobic comments.

People are afraid of what they don't understand.

The issue is that trans women are men, and most women don't want to get changed around strange men.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

SternJoyousBee · 15/05/2025 22:08

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:06

@zerofeeling how the hell would you know what they've been though??

Do they know your past? All the things you've been through in your life?

What an incredibly dim assumption to make.

And what difference does that make as to whether transwomen should be allowed to use female single sex spaces? What other group of traumatised men do we need to budge up for?

Seethlaw · 15/05/2025 22:08

ArabellaScott · 15/05/2025 22:06

Are you going to tell them, Seethlaw, or shall I?

Sorry, I was preparing the popcorn. I wasn't expecting this turn of events :D

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:10

@Alucard55
Yes, people keep repeating that same line.
But please someone say what you are ACTUALLY afraid of happening in that situation.
Just judgements no real reasons is all I see.

Would you not be more afraid of a straight man in a changing space with you. I know I would.

ArabellaScott · 15/05/2025 22:10

Seethlaw · 15/05/2025 22:08

Sorry, I was preparing the popcorn. I wasn't expecting this turn of events :D

It's always exciting when someone arrives to tell us all we're dim, don't know any trans people, and have flabby arses. Highly convincing arguments.

spannasaurus · 15/05/2025 22:11

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:10

@Alucard55
Yes, people keep repeating that same line.
But please someone say what you are ACTUALLY afraid of happening in that situation.
Just judgements no real reasons is all I see.

Would you not be more afraid of a straight man in a changing space with you. I know I would.

A lot of "transwomen" are straight men

Ddakji · 15/05/2025 22:12

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:10

@Alucard55
Yes, people keep repeating that same line.
But please someone say what you are ACTUALLY afraid of happening in that situation.
Just judgements no real reasons is all I see.

Would you not be more afraid of a straight man in a changing space with you. I know I would.

I’d more afraid of the man who wants to gain access via deception. What you might call “passing”.

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:12

@MissScarletInTheBallroom ... so, it IS what I said in my initial comment then, ..... you're worried that that might want to look at your flabby arse and saggy tits.

Don't flatter yourselves.

Seethlaw · 15/05/2025 22:12

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:10

@Alucard55
Yes, people keep repeating that same line.
But please someone say what you are ACTUALLY afraid of happening in that situation.
Just judgements no real reasons is all I see.

Would you not be more afraid of a straight man in a changing space with you. I know I would.

Statistics say that trans women are at least as likely as men to assault women. Trust me, I don't like those statistics. I don't like that some of my fellow trans people are such pigs. But denying it will only help them, and certainly not their victims. Which side are you going to be on?

Sortumn · 15/05/2025 22:13

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:01

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

So what's the issue with trans women using womens bathrooms and changing spaces then if you aren't concerned with them being around other women in those environments?

Because it seems to be a huge issue on here but no one is stating what they are actually concerned about/ afraid of happening on that circumstance.

Are you afraid a trans woman is actually a man in disguise just trying to leer at you?
Ridiculous.
I don't see any real reasons- just transphobic comments.

People are afraid of what they don't understand.

Do you think this person, Abbi Taylor is a transwoman or a man in disguise?
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/25089098.south-shields-adult-diaper-lover-horrified-parents-nursery/

Brigitte33 · 15/05/2025 22:13

@spannasaurus
And where did you learn that little fact?
Daily mail?