Page 19 | Helen Joyce finally makes it to Women's Hour today from 10am

Another2Cats · 2025-05-14T06:14:18+00:00

Just saw this: *[[https://x.com/HJoyceGender Helen Joyce]] *[[https://x.com/HJoyceGender @ HJoyceGender]] Morning all! Guess where I'm off to this fine day - Broadcasting House to discuss the [[https://x.com/ForWomenScot @ ForWomenScot]] judgment, 4 weeks on, on [[https://x.com/BBCWomansHour @ BBCWomansHour]]! Do listen in. I'm looking forward to debunking some shocking disinformation, and reminding an astonished world that Women Have Rights Too [[https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922534653166006316 https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922534653166006316]] [EDIT] Yes, I know I put "Women's" instead of "Woman's" in the title

HeadAboveHeadBelow · 14/05/2025 16:17

onlytherain · 14/05/2025 15:28

Your stepdaughter will then be in the same situation that many women and girls have faced over the past few years. Many women and girls who have experienced sexual abuse cannot share toilets and changing rooms with men due to their severe trauma. Why should we prioritise trans-identified men over highly vulnerable girls and women? When was the women's plight ever acknowledged by trans activists and the organisations supporting trans people? Vulnerable women and girls were told they were bigoted and needed to "reframe their trauma" (quote: Mridul Wadhwa). Where was any compassion for all the women and girls who have had to self-exclude before the SC judgement?

I am sorry for your stepdaughter, but she has been badly let down by Stonewall and various other organisations, not by women. She should have never been misled to believe she could to use the toilet "of her choice".

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I totally agree, she's been misled and continues to be so. It's been the greatest source of frustration of my life!

CorruptedCauldron · 14/05/2025 16:22

Helen has posted on Twix that she was happy overall with how she did in the interview but admits she wasn’t quite ready for the little boys in toilets gotcha. This is what she wrote on X:

If I had been ready, what I would have said is this: one of the most loathsome things about transactivism is the way it weaponises women's needs and vulnerabilities against us. It's women who do most childcare, and are most likely to have to bring a child to the loo with us.
^^
What Robin was saying was basically "mothers, if you want to be able to change a baby boy's nappy, we're going to make that difficult for you unless you accept grownass men in your toilets, changing rooms, rape-crisis centres and absolutely everywhere else you get undressed.
^^
It’s despicable. This is one of the many reasons I say that transactivism is a rights-destroying creed - not worthy of respect in a democratic society. If you're a man, and the sign says F/ Female/ Women - STAY OUT. Even if we sometimes take our kids ot the loo with us.

x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922665039741267979

DeanElderberry · 14/05/2025 16:29

Does poor Nuala always have that old-style primary schoolteacher nun voice? The sort who fell back on telling people not to say anything that might grieve Our Lady if anyone tried to question them on anything contentious. Permanently prissy and shocked.

Not to be confused with the sort of velociraptor nuns who taught in secondary schools and ran hospitals.

Harassedevictee · 14/05/2025 16:36

Brefugee · 14/05/2025 14:42

the point about the policing (and the way the TRAs go on about genital inspections, makes me think that is their "subconscious" speaking) is interesting.

Nobody i have heard ever comes back and says "the same way it's always been policed: by people using the correct toilet for their sex"

Because we all know that is how policing by consent works, it works in that we agree there are rules and laws and that we keep them so that society runs properly. And for the occasional transgressors? That's what the Plod are for. (or not...)

Helen made an excellent point - it’s about us all having a personal responsibility to adhere to societies rules. If you think about smoking and the cultural change from it being acceptable everywhere (buses, trains, plains, work places, pubs etc) to being restricted to designated places.

I have used this quote before “ good men stay out so bad men stand out”. Robin’s bravado statement that they will keep on using women’s facilities says far more about Robin, than Robin realises.

One question I would have loved Nuala to ask Robin about was Hampstead Ponds - as we all know there are a men's, a women’s and a mixed pond. After the SC judgement which would Robin use?

LittleBitofBread · 14/05/2025 16:42

TheaBrandt1 · 14/05/2025 16:04

I had a post deleted a few years back for using the term Helen used on radio 4 - how times have changed thank god.

Me too, if I know the one you mean! Several posts, actually, and then I got stonewalled (yes, I recognise the irony of that term) by MNHQ when I queried it.

Lemonz · 14/05/2025 16:49

Brefugee · 14/05/2025 14:42

the point about the policing (and the way the TRAs go on about genital inspections, makes me think that is their "subconscious" speaking) is interesting.

Nobody i have heard ever comes back and says "the same way it's always been policed: by people using the correct toilet for their sex"

Because we all know that is how policing by consent works, it works in that we agree there are rules and laws and that we keep them so that society runs properly. And for the occasional transgressors? That's what the Plod are for. (or not...)

It's almost as if what they really mean is: And how are you going to stop me?

TeaCalm74 · 14/05/2025 16:49

Not RTFT or any of the thread yet but placemarkind and I have IMMEDIATELY sent a complaint to BBC about their ridiculous interview of Helen. Absolutely ridiculous the way that was conducted vs Mondays
I'm switching WH off

LittleBitofBread · 14/05/2025 16:50

Lemonz · 14/05/2025 16:49

It's almost as if what they really mean is: And how are you going to stop me?

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It almost is, isn't it...

DeanElderberry · 14/05/2025 16:51

Did the same Holy Wee Wuman interview RMW?

Sorry, I can't be arsed to listen to him.

LittleBitofBread · 14/05/2025 16:52

DeanElderberry · 14/05/2025 16:51

Did the same Holy Wee Wuman interview RMW?

Sorry, I can't be arsed to listen to him.

Edited

Holy Wee Wuman

nauticant · 14/05/2025 16:53

Yes, Nuala McGovern for both interviews.

DeanElderberry · 14/05/2025 16:56

LittleBitofBread · 14/05/2025 16:52

Holy Wee Wuman

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A known sub-genus of humanity, fascinating to see its range extending beyond traditional organised religion.

BunfightBetty · 14/05/2025 17:06

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 14/05/2025 13:16

This is shameful. How much power does RMW have? He got a thread deleted here yesterday and now he gets a grovelling apology from the BBC. Marginalised my arse.

x.com/JournalistJill/status/1922617022598279382?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

He seems to have lots. Just on here alone he gets to control the way women he’s never met use language to describe him. Try correctly sexing him and see how quickly the post disappears.

Some are more equal than others.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 14/05/2025 17:11

HeadAboveHeadBelow · 14/05/2025 10:49

So did I and I think that that hasn't happened enough for the last 10 to 15 years and I'm really glad that it is happening now, however, I just think that people would understand it better or accept it more if it were acknowledged that it is difficult for a transperson who is used to going in the toilet of their choice and believes they pass (whether they do or not). And
Will now have to use the toilet of their sex. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it.I'm just saying that it is an adjustment for them.And some of them , for example , my twenty one year old transidentified female step daughter will be really anxious about this, And will stop going to certain places , perhaps many places that they would have previously gone

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it is difficult for a transperson who is used to going in the toilet of their choice and believes they pass (whether they do or not).

Nah, this isn't true. People who are used to wrong-sex facilities don't believe they pass. They either really do pass (not that I've ever met such), or else they believe other people (well women) wont say anything about it and can't do anything about it; they may even believe that if someone sees them as their actual sex then that's the observer's fault. It's a theory-of-mind problem.

Trans people who really care about whether they pass or not don't use wrong-sex toilet facilities, it's too risky.

BunfightBetty · 14/05/2025 17:11

Just had a listen and Helen was superb 👌 What a Titan.

Nuala sounded very nervous and the panicked straw man about small boys in the ladies’ loo with their mums was absolutely risible. Sheer desperation. The exasperation in Helen’s voice when she answered was sublime.

I haven’t listened to RMW, but I can well imagine the narcissistic self-serving tosh that was trotted out, with nary a thought for women. I wonder what earnest bilge Amnwsty will trot out on Friday.

SternJoyousBee · 14/05/2025 17:17

CorruptedCauldron · 14/05/2025 16:22

Helen has posted on Twix that she was happy overall with how she did in the interview but admits she wasn’t quite ready for the little boys in toilets gotcha. This is what she wrote on X:

If I had been ready, what I would have said is this: one of the most loathsome things about transactivism is the way it weaponises women's needs and vulnerabilities against us. It's women who do most childcare, and are most likely to have to bring a child to the loo with us.
^^
What Robin was saying was basically "mothers, if you want to be able to change a baby boy's nappy, we're going to make that difficult for you unless you accept grownass men in your toilets, changing rooms, rape-crisis centres and absolutely everywhere else you get undressed.
^^
It’s despicable. This is one of the many reasons I say that transactivism is a rights-destroying creed - not worthy of respect in a democratic society. If you're a man, and the sign says F/ Female/ Women - STAY OUT. Even if we sometimes take our kids ot the loo with us.

x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922665039741267979

Oh how I wish Helen had had the chance to say this on WH. Especially considering the piece that followed her interview. It would have landed brilliantly.

MarieDeGournay · 14/05/2025 17:18

Total derail, but I've just found out that Helen Joyce is of the great Irish cricketing family - including her brother Ed Joyce who played for Middlesex, Sussex, Ireland and England - howzat!

Could she be more impressive?😂

DeanElderberry · 14/05/2025 17:30

But she has said that being from a cricketing family meant she was used to being a bit counter-cultural and outside mainstream opinion.

LucretiaBourgeois · 14/05/2025 17:34

Does anyone really think that Robin Moira White would be threatened by other men if he went into the Gents?

Of course not, and neither does he. This made me think of the line attributed to Margaret Attwood: "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them". I'm guessing that what men like Robin are afraid of is that in a men's toilet, men will laugh at them. Women are too polite, or too scared.

GailBlancheViola · 14/05/2025 17:36

I have used this quote before “ good men stay out so bad men stand out”. Robin’s bravado statement that they will keep on using women’s facilities says far more about Robin, than Robin realises.

It is very illuminating when a Barrister openly admits they have no respect for the Law and will not be adhering to it.

Also very illuminating as to Robin's opinion of and complete lack of respect for women.

Nomoreidea · 14/05/2025 17:46

Have just listened, it was really good 👍

user1471471849 · 14/05/2025 18:18

GailBlancheViola · 14/05/2025 17:36

I have used this quote before “ good men stay out so bad men stand out”. Robin’s bravado statement that they will keep on using women’s facilities says far more about Robin, than Robin realises.

It is very illuminating when a Barrister openly admits they have no respect for the Law and will not be adhering to it.

Also very illuminating as to Robin's opinion of and complete lack of respect for women.

I think that being a barrister and openly stating you're not going to comply with the order of a court could be professional misconduct! I wonder will that be followed up.

borntobequiet · 14/05/2025 18:34

CorruptedCauldron · 14/05/2025 16:22

Helen has posted on Twix that she was happy overall with how she did in the interview but admits she wasn’t quite ready for the little boys in toilets gotcha. This is what she wrote on X:

If I had been ready, what I would have said is this: one of the most loathsome things about transactivism is the way it weaponises women's needs and vulnerabilities against us. It's women who do most childcare, and are most likely to have to bring a child to the loo with us.
^^
What Robin was saying was basically "mothers, if you want to be able to change a baby boy's nappy, we're going to make that difficult for you unless you accept grownass men in your toilets, changing rooms, rape-crisis centres and absolutely everywhere else you get undressed.
^^
It’s despicable. This is one of the many reasons I say that transactivism is a rights-destroying creed - not worthy of respect in a democratic society. If you're a man, and the sign says F/ Female/ Women - STAY OUT. Even if we sometimes take our kids ot the loo with us.

x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922665039741267979

I wonder if she thought that WH would have more sense than to go there. It was quite extraordinary.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/05/2025 18:36

It's been great to see this thread in trending for most of the day. It all feels similar to a family realising that the son / son in law who they adored has been serially abusing his wife and children for years - and they're struggling to accept this different reality.

This ideology has been abusive from the start. #nodebate. Bigot if you think otherwise. Speak out at your peril - you could lose your job, your friends, your family and community. Obey! The man is centred at all times with even the local priest (Starmer) wibbling on about how sensitive and vulnerable a man he is.

Suddenly reality has been revealed by the SC judgment - and the emperor has no clothes! The abusive reality has been exposed.

BellissimoGecko · 14/05/2025 18:45

Greyskybluesky · 14/05/2025 11:32

I want someone to ask them about their (justified and rational) position of advocating for single-sex toilets in developing countries to ensure safe facilities for women and girls, cut sex-based violence and ensure equality and dignity - how does this square with supporting the rights of male people to enter women's toilets in the UK?

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Do they advocate single sex spaces in dev countries? That’s insane, compared to their stance here. Men are men 🤷🏼‍♀️