Helen Joyce finally makes it to Women's Hour today from 10am

[Another2Cats]

Just saw this:

Helen Joyce @ HJoyceGender
Morning all! Guess where I'm off to this fine day - Broadcasting House to discuss the @ ForWomenScot judgment, 4 weeks on, on @ BBCWomansHour! Do listen in. I'm looking forward to debunking some shocking disinformation, and reminding an astonished world that Women Have Rights Too

https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922534653166006316

[EDIT]

Yes, I know I put "Women's" instead of "Woman's" in the title

I have sent a shit-sandwich email to Woman's Hour making 2 points (between congratulating them on getting Helen Joyce on as an opener, and congatulating them on getting the LGB Alliance for monday as a closer)

Inbetween i made 2 points:

1. that they constantly insert the question "but don't you feel sorry for men" (in whatever form they shovel it in) - rather than, say, saying that it is now up to men to budge up, or to ask if they are relieved that the position they have been harassed on for 15 years has been shown to have been correct all along
2. stop using little children to justify men going into women's spaces

Hopefully I'll get a sensible reply.

You have put that very well and it is so true.

HeadAboveHeadBelow

I just like to add, that when I was listening to the Peter Daley podcast yesterday, he also expressed understanding of trans people who are now up in arms.

Saying that they would've been used to doing it their way, and now they aren't, they feel like it's a reversal of rights, even though it isn't.

Which is understandable.

However, for the women here, and women like Helen Joyce, they have been speaking to, and conflicting with transactivists, barristers, lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, etc, all of whom had no excuse not to understand the law. Indeed very likely did understand it.

They're not shocked at a reversal of their rights. They're fucked off that their illegal access to women's rights has finally been recognised.

You can see how wrong it is to expect them to have any empathy.

Secondly, the people who led regular trans people down this erroneous path are lobbying groups like Stonewall, mermaids and Gires. People like Stephen Whittle and Christine Burns.

It's quite extraordinary that women are being asked to shoulder the fallout for their deliberate misrepresentation.

I haven't noticed any people, transactivists, or not, direct their ire towards those who are responsible for it. Rather than to women, the victims of it.

About bloody time!

I didn't know that about the apps, but that makes sense.She probably does know that. Basically , I agree that she and many , many other trans People will have to change what they've got used to and will have to make adjustments. And society in general, will have to make adjustments to what they have got used to being the norm. I only Made the point Originally that I think acknowledgement of the nuances of the situation wouldn't go a miss.I m not expecting everybody to agree with me about that , but i'm just making a point.

I dont think I can listen to this as it sounds like the presenter might make my blood boil.

I so admire people like Helen who can remain so calm in the face of ignorance and bias. I’d be so emotional and screechy.

NMcG has spoken openly on air before now about being happily child-free by choice. Which is of course absolutely fine.

But in this particular instance it may not have helped with understanding the social conventions that govern us and which some people appear very keen to undermine and/or dismantle.

I only caught the last 5 minutes or so and need to go back to listen.

The interviewer was completely gormless. She went on and on about boys and toilets. Really? My 8 year old grandson at 4 foot is the same potential threat as a 6 foot 2 bloke, or even a 5 foot 7 bloke? Use a little bit of common sense.

The boys in ladies' loos comparison undermines the usual trans activist argument of TWAW in itself. They're basically saying TWAM but let us in anyway.

Yes, unfortunately, you're just the latest person in a very long line asking women to feel sorry for the people who have been using their rights. And who fought tooth and nail to continue to do so.

And I have to say, in terms of it producing any reciprocal feeling, that is also dodo.

Women tried to be nice to start with, and it never worked.

I also want to point out there are quite a few people on this board who have trans relatives - children, siblings, parents and spouses.

They are not without understanding.

It's not too awful. Helen does get her points across

Great post.

I'd also add: single sex spaces aren't there to hurt the feelings of those excluded. Just as safeguarding measures aren't put in place to brand all adults as child abusers.

The constant switch of focus by the BBC from those that a facility is designed to protect to those who are excluded and their feelings is so....I don't know, is I too much to say that it's narcissistic and a bit rapey? How dare you put up a barrier to protect yourself, how do you think that makes me feel?

That was on a thread here yesterday, so it’s obviously doing the rounds. I believe the comment was deleted.

It’s a shame they didn’t delete the whole thread as to me it was obviously made up -

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5333921-5-year-old-in-the-ladies-is-it-okay

Amnesty on Friday? That’s a shame. They are totally anti-women.

Re the sudden cut off at the end, I pictured someone with a stopwatch making sure Helen got same time as RMW :-)

Helen did brilliantly, she's so sane and clear :-)

Maybe if the BBC and WH actually bothered to listen to the women (and men) banging on about this for the last decade, it wouldn't have come as such a shock to trans supporters... 🤔

They must have also been joking when they reproduced it on here yesterday, before the comment was deleted.

Yes, it's very galling that we have been telling them how wrong it is for years, and they decided no it isn't, and now they realise it is, it's our fault!!

it's like all the rules of misogyny mixed into one big fat fucking rule

Nuala sounded alternately terrified and angry. The silences while she groped for the words that wouldn't offend the TRAs. The rising irritation in her voice when she realised she was running out of time and Helen had successfully dealt with every single nonsense point.

Plus by the end of the interview there was almost certainly some panicked producer in her ear shouting 'you called Robin he! REPENT, REPENT!'

Helen on the other hand was calmly BRILLIANT!

'You don't have to be a parent to understand this'

Well said

You could have both?

I want someone to ask them about their (justified and rational) position of advocating for single-sex toilets in developing countries to ensure safe facilities for women and girls, cut sex-based violence and ensure equality and dignity - how does this square with supporting the rights of male people to enter women's toilets in the UK?

still not available on sounds... wonder how much editing they will do

It was always going to be that way though. We just have to look past the immediate unfairness and remember what is really important is where we are heading is the right place.

The little boy tangent is insane and makes no sense. A mother takes a boy who is under 8 into the ladies loo to care for him. That has NOTHING to do with this issue. Trans women are not little boys. Couldn’t believe grown adults were even having the conversation. It was embarrassing.